same player / IP allowed multiple times per game?

[mikman]

Would this be called a bug, exploit, loophole? I really don't know, and I'm not sure what can be done about it, other than limiting the number of mule.exe's that can be running to only 1 application.  Worth a bit of a discussion I think...

I was able to start multiple sessions of the mule.exe and start a tournament round and have both my sessions join.  Effectively I could play against myself and 2 AI players.

Here is the game (which I abandoned after the first round).

http://www.planetmule.com/hi-score-game/game?game_id=13536

[Intergalactic Mole]

I would consider that a loophole, or an exploit that is created by a bug.  IMO if 2 or more players from the same IP are connected to the server then none of them should be allowed to join a tournament game.

[machinus]

People playing on a router should be able to play games. Also people have even talked about multiple people playing from the same computer. I think those should be considered.

[data2008]

any more opinions on closing that via IP or leave that open?

[mikman]

I think to start, it might be smart to allow only one login per account at a time.  This won't stop a user from logging in more than once from the same ip with different accounts, but I think it's a step in the right direction.

[machinus]

At the very least you should be able to play from a router.

[Intergalactic Mole]

2 (or more) people from the same IP (even with different logins) could very well be the same person on multiple computers, or be multiple players in the same physical room collaborating against other players that may not have the advantage of being face-to-face.  It would be easier for those people to collaborate their way to higher ranks.  I am not saying that we should stop people on the same IP from playing the game.  They just shouldnt be able to play a RANKED game.

[data2008]

We will make people aware that two players use the same IP in a game with the next release,
so its at least another step in the direction before completely forbid this for tourneys.

[Intergalactic Mole]

I personally do not play for ranks. I play only for fun.  However, the rankings have no credibility to me without this safeguard.

[ddebernardy]

IP-based restrictions should not be enforced in any way. Most ISPs outside of the US give the same IP address to hundreds or thousands of end-users in different premises, in much the same way as anyone playing at work in a large corporate network will have the same address as his fellow co-workers.

D.

[JonnyGabble]

IP-based restrictions should not be enforced in any way. Most ISPs outside of the US give the same IP address to hundreds or thousands of end-users in different premises, in much the same way as anyone playing at work in a large corporate network will have the same address as his fellow co-workers.

D.

I agree with this.  You use some type of cookie or even a MAC address to limit the connection to 1 per computer, but I like the ability to play with people in the same household or workplace.  We the rankings moved to an ELO type ranking system like I recommended here:
http://www.planetmule.com/forum?topic=554.msg2591#new
this wouldn't make as big of deal in the rankings.

I think people are going to be able to manipulate almost any ranking system and there should be way in which this is controlled as best possible, but this is not the answer IMHO.

[Intergalactic Mole]

Most ISPs outside of the US give the same IP address to hundreds or thousands of end-users in different premises

Without giving a full blown lesson in TCP/IP, let me just simply say that this is not true.  If multiple users are connecting from the same IP they are in the same geographical location (i.e. same house or building).  They should not be allowed to play ranked games, since there is no way to tell whether or not they are even in the same room, in which case they could easily be the same person playing solo from two different computers in order to achieve higher rank.   I am not saying that they should not be allowed to play.  They just shouldnt be ranked.

We the rankings moved to an ELO type ranking system like I recommended here:
http://www.planetmule.com/forum?topic=554.msg2591#new
this wouldn't make as big of deal in the rankings.

Not true either.  In addition to the ELO system, ASOBRAIN specifically prohibits users from the same IP address from joining a ranked game.  Rankings would have no credibility otherwise.  See Subject "Recent update (Sept 30) in the Faq section for confirmation.

[ddebernardy]

Without giving a full blown lesson in TCP/IP, let me just simply say that this is not true.  If multiple users are connecting from the same IP they are in the same geographical location (i.e. same house or building).

Again, this is only valid in US households.

If you're in a corporate network with a VPS, two employees from NYC and LA can end up with the same IP address. I've seen it happen. I've actually sold this, at one point.

As for ISPs, some in Europe give the same IP address to an entire neighborhoods. It's even more pronounced in Asia, where ISPs have even less IP addresses to distribute than we do.

[Intergalactic Mole]

Again, this is only valid in US households.

TCP/IP is not a US technology. It's how networks communicate over the internet in every country, even in Europe and Asia.

If you're in a corporate network with a VPS, two employees from NYC and LA can end up with the same IP address. I've seen it happen. I've actually sold this, at one point.

I'll give you this. Users on a corporate network can be located in different locations and use the same gateway on a virtual network.  However, these employees shouldn't be playing a ranked game since we have no way of knowing whether they are the same person or in the same room or across the country.  They should be unranked (and probably fired for playing MULE on company time).

As for ISPs, some in Europe give the same IP address to an entire neighborhoods. It's even more pronounced in Asia, where ISPs have even less IP addresses to distribute than we do.

I've never heard of an ISP giving out a single IP address to an entire neighborhood, and I've been a network engineer for 25 years.  As far as I'm concerned it's false unless someone can show me credible documentation of such.  Even if it were true, IMO these people should still not be allowed to play ranked games. 


All I am saying is that the games shouldn't be RANKED if the players are from the same IP.   I am not saying they shouldn't be able to play. 

True or false: If users from the same IP are able to play ranked games, can or can you not play from 2 laptops side by side and work your way to rank 1 easily?  True.  Therefore, the ranks have no credibility without some safeguard.  The easiest one to implement is the IP based restriction.

[ddebernardy]

TCP/IP is not a US technology. It's how networks communicate over the internet in every country, even in Europe and Asia. (...) I've never heard of an ISP giving out a single IP address to an entire neighborhood. (...) It's false unless someone can show me credible documentation of such.

I sincerely don't mean to be anal, but TCP/IP as we know it descends from technologies used on the Arpanet, a 100% US technology. Best I'm aware, IANA is still US-based; it's still largely influenced by the US gov in spite of RIRs; and the indirect oversight of the US gov in way IP addresses are allocated is still a source of tension with quite a few countries during WTO negotiations.

Tease left aside, I think that you're misjudging how scarce IP addresses can be outside of the US. You work around the scarcity by NAT'ing the daylights out of your customers. I haven't worked in a telco in the past 5 years, but I sincerely doubt that things have changed much since.

All I am saying is that the games shouldn't be RANKED if the players are from the same IP.

I'm not even sure I'd agree to that... What's wrong if friends and I decide to toss in a Mule party while sharing a pizza?

The easiest one to implement is the IP based restriction.

... but a much better and reliable one to implement is a MAC-address based restriction. *That* is unique.

D.