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trouba
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« on: March 06, 2010, 21:18 » |
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Hi, I just noticed that if a player was kicked and his position taken by AI that if he wins, his victory is counted in his statistics. Isn't that a bit strange? The game is here: http://www.planetmule.com/hi-score-game/game?game_id=20888P.S. I know, I know, it's a shame to get beaten from AI... pirates at turn 11 did a lot of hell!  |
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kipley
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« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2010, 22:54 » |
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Sweet, this adds another new strategy to my arsenal! If ever I suspect a computer could do better than me in a given situation, I'm going to "tag out", abandon, and cheer my AI teammate on!  |
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C64 nostalgia
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« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2010, 23:35 » |
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It happened here, too: http://www.planetmule.com/hi-score-game/game?game_id=20571 The AI won big. [I hang my head in shame.] Sweet, this adds another new strategy to my arsenal! If ever I suspect a computer could do better than me in a given situation, I'm going to "tag out", abandon, and cheer my AI teammate on! Oh no, I can see it now. kipley's seemingly benign act will lead to the AI's taking over the world. (I know it's cliche, but hey... Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not watching you.) |
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« Last Edit: March 06, 2010, 23:37 by C64 nostalgia »
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Pescado
Prototype Tester
Mule Regular
Posts: 81
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« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2010, 07:18 » |
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Hmm, I wonder: If the host is a Visitor and does not play, can the game continue after everyone abandons to a conclusion without any of the players? I think the abandoned player victory is a good thing, though: If the player manages to lay the groundwork such that even an AI can direct his empire to victory, he should be allowed to keep it, so that it will be harder for a crooked host to kick him and steal the win.
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C64 nostalgia
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« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2010, 07:38 » |
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The way I see it: Any encouragement for a player to bail needs to be removed. Thus, abandoned player wins are a bug and should not be counted.
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Pescado
Prototype Tester
Mule Regular
Posts: 81
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« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2010, 09:43 » |
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I don't think that any player which is WINNING would bail by choice, so this argument is a non-issue. There is little that would encourage a winning player to bail and leave his empire up to the vagaries of the AI, jokes about this notwithstanding. It seems more likely that a host would boot a winning player in an attempt to deprive that player of a win, or that a winning player is disconnected from a game due to network issues.
If anything, the opposite applies: Since it follows that if a player wins while substituted by an AI, the score is presently counted anyway, if the player LOSES while substituted by an AI, his score is ALSO counted, meaning he cannot avoid defeat by abandoning the game: It will just give him a defeat AND an abandonment. Clearly, no one is seriously suggesting that intentionally abandoning a game so that the AI will play for you represents an advantage, and if Collusion is ever finally implemented, players can engage in deliberately AI-hostile behaviors which an AI cannot respond to even more effectively.
It seems more that in this particular case, a player, who already had a relatively strong position, playing with players who are not exceptionally skilled, was disconnected from laggingness and was able to retain his position under the AI through luck and a decent foundation.
On the other hand, perhaps the mechanics of how a player is handled when he is disconnected are poor and promote this problem: In C64/Atari, a player who quits becomes inert and does nothing for the rest of the game, and the other players grab his joystick and steal his stuff. Implementing AI takeover of such a player is not really true to form, as this can never happen in the original.
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Orv
Jr. Planeteer
Posts: 15
Bird!
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« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2010, 20:47 » |
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A bigger problem, as I just noted in a new thread, is someone can take advantage for an easy win. If they're hosting a game against someone who's more skilled than the AI, all they have to do is block packets from that player to get them to time out and be replaced by an AI. The win will still count even if this results in the host being the only human player in the game. Someone just good enough to beat the AI consistently could rack up some pretty impressive stats this way.
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Bird!
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Sciamano
Mule Forum Newbie
Posts: 1
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« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2010, 23:02 » |
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May be this one the reason why in the hi-scores i noticed people with stats like this one:
26 played
15 won
58 % ratio
20 abandoned
?? If you look in mid-positions of the scores (50-100) there are some players with stats like this...
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Orv
Jr. Planeteer
Posts: 15
Bird!
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« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2010, 23:13 » |
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I think a lot of these issues will be fixed if the devs go through with their plan to host games centrally. Most of the abuses will become impossible then. It'll also fix problems where a bunch of people want to play, but none of them know how to port-forward, so no one can host.
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Bird!
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RagMan
Mule Forum Newbie
Posts: 8
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« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2010, 13:23 » |
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Heres an idea. What if the programmers change it so that insted of a dropped player being taken over by an AI, they just get deleted and the gane continues with 3 players. That way, the dropped player gets no credit one way or the other for that game. All the plots from the dropped player can then be auctioned off by the system to the remaining players. As far as food, energy, ore, and crystite. Well I have no ideas about that.
Just a thought.
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Mt-Wampus
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« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2010, 15:36 » |
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Everybody wants this changed and that changed. Everybody has this idea and that idea. Your NEVER going to please EVERYBODY! The only change that it looks like EVERYBODY wants is to the auction system. Tweek that and leave the rest alone since there is no clear cut complaint from the masses other than the auctions.
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kipley
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« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2010, 17:20 » |
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The only change that it looks like EVERYBODY wants is to the auction system.
I would say that everybody also wants a change to the method used for calculating the Hi-Scores. Even the folks at the top of the list agree that total number of wins is a terrible metric to rank players by. Now as far as what the best alternate method of ranking is, well, there's no clear consensus. I would also say there's bugs that everybody wants fixed, such as restoring the sound that alerts awaiting folks to when a new game is created in the lobby, and the various host advantage bugs. But your point is valid, in that there are many, many other player ideas for how to "improve" the game, many of which would not be agreed upon by all. Or even by a majority. Or even by anyone else other than the person who came up with the idea! |
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Makelith
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« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2010, 06:27 » |
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Everybody wants this changed and that changed. Everybody has this idea and that idea. Your NEVER going to please EVERYBODY! The only change that it looks like EVERYBODY wants is to the auction system. Tweek that and leave the rest alone since there is no clear cut complaint from the masses other than the auctions.
This is where you can have certain options/variants to turn on/off, then people can decide how they want to play it, or if they want to play with certain ideas/variants. I would like to see a varying degree of difficulty for AI, though I'm not sure how easy that is to accomplish. |
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