Sentinel: A plot-defense against pirates

[Karawane]

Some of you have probably heard about "Deluxe M.U.L.E.", the never-finished version for the Atari ST and Amiga. It was supposed to offer a fifth choice of how to outfit your labor elements: a sentinel unit against pirates. A plot outfitted with it would be completely unproductive but the player with most plots of this kind would not be bothered by the pirates. This sounds like another intriguing gamble to me. I have no idea what it does to the game balance, but reportedly this mechanism was already tested. What do you think?

[Intergalactic Mole]

Sounds interesting.  Sacrafice a plot for the rest of the game in order to protect yourself from pirates.  It should probably cost a significant amount of money to do this.  Seems like a pretty neat idea, though it may be unbalanced if it doesn't cost enough, and perhaps it may be pointless to charge too much for it because then players may never be able to purchase it until so late in the game that it becomes non cost effective.   What if it were just an upgrade to an existing Crystite plot?   Perhaps charge an extra $??? for the Crystite outfit to give it immunity.  Or maybe a temporary outfit that lasts for a limited number of rounds, perhaps even random.  Something along those lines might be more balanced than the original idea.

[Lomgren]

As I understand, the creator did not like this mechanism, and thus ultimately stopped working on the game, because of the pressure to put guns/etc in.  Just something to think about.

[Intergalactic Mole]

We aren't suggesting guns or bombs be implemented, and so I don't see the relevance of your statement.

[Karawane]

I don't know if I got the idea across correctly: Only the one player who has most of these sentinel plots is not bothered by the pirates. All others will still be robbed and have wasted their land for the unproductive sentinels. That's the gamble; you need to have most of these plots at the instant the pirates come. This gives another advantage to the worst palyer: She or he can see if it's worth outfitting another sentinel or transforming existing ones into something more productive instead.

I have no idea if this was the idea Bunten was working on when she finally stopped the project. It does not sound like anything violent.

[Intergalactic Mole]

That's an idea as well Karawane.  The subject of this post is protection against pirates, and so all we are doing at this point is suggesting different ways to do that.  Protecting against the pirates doesn't seem any more or less violent than the existence of the pirates themselves, and so I don't see the harm in this idea at all.

[Big Head Zach]

You could call it "property insurance", and cover the entire range of things that can happen to your developed plots (MULE goes crazy, pest attack, planetquake moving mountains, etc.)

Insurance usually doesn't get violent unless someone working in the insurance office forgets to refill the coffee machine when they finish off a pot.

[Intergalactic Mole]

If protection against all events, my suggestion would be to make it ridiculously expensive and only last one month.  Otherwise, what would be the point of having events. 

[Karawane]

I guess, the price for a sentinel unit could be rather low as you lose the production of a plot of land with it and, if you are not the player with most sentinels, you gain nothing.

Anyway, my idea was taken from an old magazine report about an early version of Deluxe M.U.L.E. This "insurance" was meant against pirates only and seemed already well in tune with the game balance. It's too bad that the early prototype appears to be lost. At least, I have never heard of it again.

[Intergalactic Mole]

If you're suggesting that an entire plot be used as a sentinal, and the person with the most sentinals is the only one who gets the protection, then you'll likely end up with 4 people filling up the map with sentinals, and only 1 or 2 production plots.  You might finally get to see that "Prison" ending after all. 

[Big Head Zach]

"full of sound and fury, signifying nothing..."

A whole map full of defensive structures and one piddly Smithore plot to speak for it, because dammit, I'm owning that market like a mofo.

[Intergalactic Mole]

ROFL!!!

[Karawane]

If you're suggesting that an entire plot be used as a sentinal, and the person with the most sentinals is the only one who gets the protection, then you'll likely end up with 4 people filling up the map with sentinals, and only 1 or 2 production plots.  You might finally get to see that "Prison" ending after all. 

But that is what Deluxe M.U.L.E. supposedly implemented. Though, I disagree with you on the effect: Every sentinel kills one plot of production. If you are not the palyer with most sentinels you do much better not having sentinels at all. If you are the player with most sentinels you still have to pay the price of unproductive plots (look in that thread about the value of land for what this means to your progress).

In the magazine report it said this mechanism appeared to be well in tune with the game balance. Usually, players would at most build two sentinels before their unproductiveness starts persuading them to construct something more productive. (Keep in mind that sentinels still cost an energy unit per month.)

I tried to calculate the odds of this mechanism in theory and came to the conclusion that it is a tough gamble. It busts the players if they keep an army of sentinels over a longer period of time; it's more a short-term maneuver for those betting on Crystite. It's a twist to give the players behind a chance to catch up with the guy producing most Crystite (IF the pirates really come). Further, if the guys trying to protect their Crystite production engage too much in setting up sentinels, the guys betting on Smithore will again get ahead because of their higher productiveness.

It really sounds like an intriguing gamble to me.

[Intergalactic Mole]

In the magazine report it said this mechanism appeared to be well in tune with the game balance. Usually, players would at most build two sentinels before their unproductiveness starts persuading them to construct something more productive. (Keep in mind that sentinels still cost an energy unit per month.)

What magazine are you referring to?  A magazine can't possibly judge of how hundreds of players are going to make their decisions in a game that hasn't even been released.  The feature remains untested and, in my opinion, unless the player is mechanically limited to 2 sentinals, I can picture games consisting entirely of sentinal wars with no mind of other production at all.  You also have to consider the fact that players take turns one at a time.  And so the first player in the development phase stands absolutely no chance of having the most sentinals.  Player 4 always has the advantage.  That hardly seems balanced to me.

I'm not trying to shoot down your idea.  I think it's a good concept.  I just dont agree with your implementation of it.

[Karawane]

The magazine I am referring to is called "Happy Computer". It was a German monthly. I do not have it, I only have a copy of the article. It seems to be an issue from 1988. You are surely right about this feature not having been tested with many players, but the journalists from the magazine seemed to have tested it thoroughly.

I am an advocacy of a factual discussion of this. So, please, understand: Mass production of sentinels does not make sense. You don't earn money with them - they cost you money. Yet, you win M.U.L.E. if you obtain MOST money. So, mass installations of sentinels will certainly NOT be an issue (unless players want to lose). You do not fight each other with sentinels; they are purely for discouraging pirates from taking your Crystite.

Further, the first player is usually the best player. He IS to have a handicap. Aim of the mechanism is to give others a chance to catch up. If the first player decided to setup two sentinels, others have to carefully ponder if it's worth setting up three sentinels. Instead, they could leave their Crystite plots productive and outperform the weakened production of the first guy (gambling on the pirates not to appear). It's a gamble that needs a very careful decision depending on the number of already installed sentinels and crystite plots.

If you are really interested in this mechanism I can send you the probability tables I made for myself to theoretically understand it. Contact me with a private message as the tables are unsuitable for a post here.

I would like some other critical comments as I still think the mechanism is very mature the way I described it above. Anyway, it is just an idea taken from the Deluxe M.U.L.E. development.