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Author Topic: Auction proposal  (Read 1282 times)
Eik
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« on: December 26, 2009, 04:30 »

Because the host has a very big advantage of determining the game by always being the first at the buying line during an auction (if he wants), and being able to buy all the available goods before the other players can, why not change the concept.
I am sure this is discussed before in topics, but this seems to be a good place to gather ideas.
- just like selling to the shop, buying from the shop should be done simultaneously if there are more then one persons to buy at the same price. Buying from humans should be done one by one dividing the goods over the people buying.

Furthermore:
- is it an idea for the shop to increase the price it is selling at during an auction if the shop notices the realtime demand is high (for example: when people are still running up at the selling line, the price gets pushed up a little per each transaction?)
- what about the fact that you can push the price for for example a land auction so high that noone else can buy it, and then back off not buying it yourself. Does the minimum price need to drop?
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zposse
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« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2010, 10:51 »

I agree.  In a lot of games, the host player with ping advantage (who happened to be in 1st place) was able to consistently buy out smithore from the store, even when the 2nd-4th place players appeared to reach the line at the same time.  Even if the smithore strategy is fixed, there are other cases where this poses a problem.  For example, multiple players with food or energy shortages rushing to buy the remaining units of food or energy from the store only to see the 1st place host snap everything up. 

Regarding simultaneous buying:  I agree that it reduces the host advantage when everybody buys each unit at the same time.  Also, if there are more buyers than units, then the lower ranked players get those units, i.e. if 4 players try to buy the last 2 units from another player or the store, then the 3nd and 4th place players buy 1 unit each while the 1st and 2nd place players are left in the dust.

Another suggestion would be "cutting in line."  This suggestion is not mutual with "simultaneous buying."  Lower place players could have the ability to "cut in line" while goods are being transferred.  This can happen at any time.  If there are 15 units in the store, a lower place player can decide to let the host get the first 5 units, then "cut" and get the last 10 units.

These suggestions do fundamentally alter the gameplay mechanics of the original, so they'd be good options to include in an alternate version.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2010, 10:59 by zposse » Logged
Eik
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« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2010, 22:14 »

I don't agree on your cutting the line principle. That gives the lowest ranked player the same privileges as the player with the highest ping now (=host).
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Intergalactic Mole
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« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2010, 03:59 »

Because the host has a very big advantage of determining the game by always being the first at the buying line during an auction (if he wants), and being able to buy all the available goods before the other players can, why not change the concept.

I don't think the current concept conicides with the original game to begin with.  And so you might be suggesting to change the concept based on the assumption that what is happening now is the correct way, which is not. 

- just like selling to the shop, buying from the shop should be done simultaneously if there are more then one persons to buy at the same price. Buying from humans should be done one by one dividing the goods over the people buying.

In the original game, if multiple people meet the line then the person with the lowest amount of cash gets priority.  With that in mind, would you still suggest the same thing?

- is it an idea for the shop to increase the price it is selling at during an auction if the shop notices the realtime demand is high (for example: when people are still running up at the selling line, the price gets pushed up a little per each transaction?)

Yes, that is an interesting idea but I am not sure how well it would play out in a turn by turn concept.

- what about the fact that you can push the price for for example a land auction so high that noone else can buy it, and then back off not buying it yourself. Does the minimum price need to drop?

This is working the same as the original game. It can be used as a way to prevent the plot from being sold. However, while this may appear to be an advantage for the player who did it, in reality it may in fact be a disadvantage, since he is allowing the plot to be obtained for free on the next land grant... and he is not necessarily guaranteed to obtain it himself.

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Big Head Zach
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« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2010, 04:10 »

In the original game, if multiple people meet the line then the person with the lowest amount of cash gets priority.

I'm pretty sure it's the players in lowest position who get to trade, not who has the least cash.
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Intergalactic Mole
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« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2010, 06:14 »

Care to test that out on the Atari version?  Wink
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Big Head Zach
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« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2010, 06:24 »

Quote from: MULE Manual, page 7
I get to the Buy line just as fast as another Seller and I don't get to sell anything; what's going on?
Remember, the player with the least amount of money, land, and goods always gets the advantage. If you are richer than the other Seller, he or she will win all the "ties". The same goes when you and another player are both trying to buy something.

This could be interpreted to mean either:
  • The current player order as determined by the Status Update of the previous round, or
  • The actual player standing calculated at that very moment.

What you're suggesting is the second option, and not the first, or that it's simply on liquid cash at that moment. Not sure if I'm a fan of this one instance defying the general "first place curse, last place cushion" rule that pervades all other parts of the game.

Kroah's documentation is incomplete on this aspect, so I'm curious to see what he found out about this.
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« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2010, 06:31 »

lol@your lobby quote.  I could very well be mistaken.  To test this would require us to play the original game or find out from Kroah.  But from what I remember it could very well possibly be at that current time ... and I guess I am wrong about just the cash part... Never noticed that statement in the manual.
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Eik
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« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2010, 01:19 »

Because the host has a very big advantage of determining the game by always being the first at the buying line during an auction (if he wants), and being able to buy all the available goods before the other players can, why not change the concept.

I don't think the current concept conicides with the original game to begin with.  And so you might be suggesting to change the concept based on the assumption that what is happening now is the correct way, which is not.  

- just like selling to the shop, buying from the shop should be done simultaneously if there are more then one persons to buy at the same price. Buying from humans should be done one by one dividing the goods over the people buying.

In the original game, if multiple people meet the line then the person with the lowest amount of cash gets priority.  With that in mind, would you still suggest the same thing?
Did I say anything about that my proposal would apply for the exact-copy-version of MULE?
Together with zposse's addition I think this proposal is a very nice idea to prevent latency issues.
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Jaradakar
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« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2010, 23:57 »

Part of the economic aspect of the game is being able to buy something out before other players.  I think removing that aspect would be removing a great part of what makes MULE, MULE.

Personally I'd like to see some form of dampening to help prevent the host from having such an advantage.
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