Atari or C64?

[phgellis]

C-64 here as well....I basically used it for 4 things:  playing MULE, playing Lords of Conquest, playing Robot Rascals, and Q-Link.

[TomS]

C=64 here too. Oh, that brings back good old memories

[vox]

Atari 800 cartridge Atari 800xl with 1050 disk drive also c64 tape version.

[Karawane]

The C64 version had the nicest sound and graphics for M.U.L.E. in my opinion.

I'm gonna have to go ahead and strongly disagree with you there.  The Atari had a superior sound system compared to the C64.  Much richer and fuller.

It's a matter of personal taste. However, fact is that the C64 SID-Ship has a far superior range of waveforms and frequencies. In the MULE game, the inferiority of the Atari sound became apparent when you produced more than 30 units of anything in a single turn: the Atari sound would just stop at its highest frequency (which is low) while the C64 could slide the tone up to the end of the production. As for the actual MULE music, they sound very much alike; definitely, there is no additional "richness" in the Atari version 

[Karawane]

The C64 version had the nicest sound and graphics for M.U.L.E. in my opinion.

I'm gonna have to go ahead and strongly disagree with you there.  The Atari had a superior sound system compared to the C64.  Much richer and fuller.

I have to agree with Bertoid here. The Atari music is much better!!!  The C64 only has 3 sound channels, the Atari has 4-- and 2 of those channels can be combined to produce 16-bit sound!

I, too, am another one who played MULE on Atari 800 back in 1983.  I basically had 4 player sessions of this game practically every other day for years until everyone went to college or moved away and there was nobody to play with anymore.  Eventually my Atari ended up in the attic.  It's gone now, but it's spirit lives on in my PC.  I've been yearning for an internet playable MULE since I first got connected to the world wide web in 2000 (I know, I was a late bloomer there).  In 2005 I spent much time playing the original Atari version of MULE over the internet using the Atari emulator with Kaillera.  Unfortunately, it was too complicated to set up, and high latency caused controller delays and synchronization problems.  And of course without any kind of "lobby" like Planet Mule, it was even more difficult to arrange games.  Then I was a beta tester for Space Horse, which was an excellent modern rendition of MULE with internet play.  Unfortunately, unresolved network stability issues forced me to file it in my closet indefinitely.  I'm so glad to be part of this!

While you may be theoretically right, the Atari M.U.L.E. has not used any of those features you are referring to. Listen to both versions: they sound almost the same (If anything, the Atari tones sound a little more clanky.)

[Intergalactic Mole]

Im very familiar with the C64 version of MULE Karawane. I still think the sound on the Atari is better, especially the theme song.

Also, this very well-written article seems to agree that the Atari version is better in all aspects, specifically the sound. LOL.

http://www.racketboy.com/retro/2008/02/retro-masterpiece-mule.html

[Karawane]

Im very familiar with the C64 version of MULE Karawane. I still think the sound on the Atari is better, especially the theme song.

Also, this very well-written article seems to agree that the Atari version is better in all aspects, specifically the sound. LOL.

http://www.racketboy.com/retro/2008/02/retro-masterpiece-mule.html

Interestingly, I do not read the same conclusion from that very article It says "arguably" when it comes to sound, it also says that the random generator of the C64 port leaves you with longer fun. Anyway, I just try to be fact oriented.

Personally, I like the Atari version better for two reasons that have not even been mentioned in your article: On the C64, the earthquake does not move mountains to the adjacent square - what a bummer! And the wampus is extremely hard to catch on the C64. Last but not least (but this has been mentioned in the article), the Atari version is playable with 4 joysticks. That is actually the killer argument against the C64 version.

...but I have also just listened to both versions of the M.U.L.E. music and neither I nor my wife have detected a significant difference. If anything, we both found that the Atari sound is (very) slightly off-tune. Again, this seems to be "arguable"

[Intergalactic Mole]

Yes, all points of Atari vs Commodore are "arguably". Always have been, always will be.  It's been a war since the beginning.  But the part of the article I was specifically referring to was where he stated "usually the SID was capable of more — unfortunately, such attention wasn’t given over in the C64 port.".  Also, with regard to the random map generator, it was noted that many of the randomly generated maps were horribly unbalanced.  I wouldn't want to be half way through a game of MULE just to discover we were on one of those unbalanced maps, ultimately causing someone at the end of the game to be a sore loser.

[Karawane]

Yes, all points of Atari vs Commodore are "arguably". Always have been, always will be.  It's been a war since the beginning.  But the part of the article I was specifically referring to was where he stated "usually the SID was capable of more — unfortunately, such attention wasn’t given over in the C64 port.".  Also, with regard to the random map generator, it was noted that many of the randomly generated maps were horribly unbalanced.  I wouldn't want to be half way through a game of MULE just to discover we were on one of those unbalanced maps, ultimately causing someone at the end of the game to be a sore loser.

Agreed. But on one point I (seriously) need an explanation: What makes an unbalanced map being unfair as every player plays on the same map and can grab any plot she or he wants to?

[Intergalactic Mole]

Good question.  Perhaps the placement and disbursement of the mountains ?  I guess if there was only 1 smithore plot with 3 mountains it would be a bit unbalanced.  Also if all the mountain plots were clumped into adjacent plots it would not be condusive.  I dont know really since I'm not too familiar with the C64 version.

[Karawane]

Good question.  Perhaps the placement and disbursement of the mountains ?  I guess if there was only 1 smithore plot with 3 mountains it would be a bit unbalanced.  Also if all the mountain plots were clumped into adjacent plots it would not be condusive.  I dont know really since I'm not too familiar with the C64 version.

Back in 1983, I have played the C64 version with friends on a weekly basis. Sometimes, two high crystite plots were adjacent or even identical (actually leaving the third deposit invisible), or one was on a river plot. Sometimes, the mountains were more clustered than usual. But we have never found a map unfair. What is "unfair" when everybody has the same options? The maps just pose different challenges. A year later, we switched to the Atari 800 because of the 4 joystick ports. We have never realized that those maps were more balanced (or that there were only 128 maps available). What I want to say is that this whole discussion in the article about better or worse maps is quixotic.

On the other hand, the article leaves out facts like the moving mountains on tha Atari, the different catching of the wampus on the C64, the limited production sound on the Atari. And most interestingly, it does not at all mention differences in the game balance: After we switched to the Atari, we quickly realized that the strategy of massively producing Crystite wouldn't work so well anymore. I have never found the reason for this. It must be a very subtle mechanism (maybe more pirates in later turns or more sophisticated Mechtrons?), but we could empirically reproduce it.

In short, this article you are basing your opinion on seems poorly investigated.

[Intergalactic Mole]

I'm not basing my opinion on the article, I just said the guy in the article agreed with my opinion.  My opinion still remains unchanged in that the Atari version is better overall, for reasons including not not limited to some of the ones you pointed out yourself.

[valon]

Atari 800 

[Phlll]

C64.

I owned the 64, and it was on a pirateware disc.  My roommate in college actually started trying to figure it out, and I got roped in.

Many, many games later I got the disappointing NES version.

I sometimes still break out the 64.  But now I can actually look for human players again!

[ltbeeb]

i grew up playing the c-64 version but like  the atari version better because of 4 joysticks.  however the atari has the glitch when you buy land if you are the first person in the lead and you hold up the whoe way you can buy it for whatever you have left in money!  i think the c-64 version has better sound and graphics when things like pest attack happen, but i like the atari mountains that move in a planet quake