Assay

[anubis34]

Some player do and some don't. what if you had the host has the option to trun off/on  the Assay for that match. the same way you can turn off/on seeing computers development. I would just think you could only do the Assay option before games starts, not in the game. Or let player vote on Assay before games starts.
or you can ONLY assay plots you have, not other players. who see the assay that up in the air.

[Mt-Wampus]

   I dont agree with the fact that others should be able to see the results of another players assay! You spend the time and put out the effort to assay plots and everybody gets to reap the rewards! Dont agree! I know all the Old school purists and guys who sit around charting and marking every move on paper will come around and argue my point but oh well. My 2 cents anyway.

[GambitTime]

Not letting everyone see the assay would change the game a great deal, including lowing the host advantage because everyone won't go for the same plot as often.  I am all for it.

[Blitzen]

If you do that you destroy the competition for the same plots a great deal which is a lot of the FUN of the original.

Not to mention you make it all depend on luck since most highs would never be found, people don't have enough time to each find all the crystite let alone develop it properly.

Besides if you do that its not much of a remake either. 

[data2008]

Besides if you do that its not much of a remake either. 

Just remind you, this is Mule 2 Forum ideas, not classic fedback and suggestions

[Blitzen]

Whoops! Must be late, my bad, apologies.

Instead let me say its like taking Brenden Fraser and that hot chick out of a Mummy sequel!

[leahcim99]

To Assay....or Not to Assay....That is the question...

The results are now visible to all, so it does create competion for plots and this IS and WAS part of the fun of the original version (and punching your opponent when he stole your plot)

If we are going to tweak it - how about players paying to see results at the start of the month? Maybe one of the bonuses could be to see the other player's stite map? There are many ways we can tweak the assay.

As it is now, it is a part of your strategy - do you assay for highs and try to build around them - hoping the other do not steal the mediums or high itself?

Do you not assay and just try to keep your plots together for production bonus?

The question can never really be answered because each player reagrds the question differently

[Rhodan]

To Assay....or Not to Assay....That is the question...

The results are now visible to all, so it does create competion for plots and this IS and WAS part of the fun of the original version (and punching your opponent when he stole your plot)

If we are going to tweak it - how about players paying to see results at the start of the month? Maybe one of the bonuses could be to see the other player's stite map? There are many ways we can tweak the assay.

As it is now, it is a part of your strategy - do you assay for highs and try to build around them - hoping the other do not steal the mediums or high itself?

Do you not assay and just try to keep your plots together for production bonus?

The question can never really be answered because each player reagrds the question differently

The above quote explains exactly why you don't want to change land assay. Please leave it like the original. No tweaking is needed.

[mulefan]

</lurk>
Using game theory(!), we can deduce:

1. Analyzing the pay off matrix suggests that assaying is a losing strategy. You spend time assaying that could have been better spent developing land, hunting the wampus or even gambling, while sharing the fruits of you labour with the competition.

2. Tragedy of the commons: if everyone plays a winning strategy (i.e. by not assaying), everybody loses in that it becomes difficult to optimize your crystite strategy.

To Assay....or Not to Assay....That is the question...
[...]
As it is now, it is a part of your strategy - do you assay for highs and try to build around them - hoping the other do not steal the mediums or high itself?

The pay off matrix clearly suggests that you're a loser if you assay and a winner if you leach off everybody else' assaying, hence assaying unfortunately is a part of everyone's strategy. The question is only whether you play it optimally (don't assay, but leach) or not (squander your time assaying and inform everyone of where the goddies are stored).

Do you not assay and just try to keep your plots together for production bonus?

The question can never really be answered because each player reagrds the question differently

Even though you don't go after getting the high crystite plots, you would still pick a possible high or medium over a possible low or none when trying to maximize EOS. So, assaying would still be of value to you.

The results are now visible to all, so it does create competion for plots and this IS and WAS part of the fun of the original version (and punching your opponent when he stole your plot)

Even though everyone would have to assay for themselves, there would still be competition for the best plots.  But there would be asymmetric information, benefiting those who make informed decisions after assaying. Also, by making assaying hidden, you would force all players to make more tactical decisions during development - which is good. Assay, develop, hunt or gamble? If assaying, then which plot(s) to assay? Etc.

IMHO: today's assaying scheme can only be played optimally by not assaying. The only ones who don't understand that are newbies. The old-timers are therefore leaching off the newbies using a bad function of the game.
<lurk>

[dynadan]

I think the current system we have on assays work's really well.  The strategy I use i usually assay 3 or 4 times the 1st round, and another 2 or 3 assays on round 2.  And i certainly win my share of games.  Although assaying while you wumpus hunt is available if you want private information.  This takes skill and timing to pull off just like it should be.  Paying attention and remembering where people assay is like a mini game in the middle of MULE.

With that being said, one of the best ideas i have heard for mule2 is the simultaneous development phase.  This would make the game at least twice as fast and would not affect gameplay that much.  Unfortunately one of the victims of this will be the shared assay information.  Possibly we could find a way to still see what other people assay results are while your turn is in progress?  Maybe only when you are outside of the store?

[Keybounce]

There is a difference between doing the assaying and leaching the assaying.

First, I've had plenty of games where someone else assays a spot I've already assayed.

Second, if I've assayed, the information stays. If I'm leaching, I have to remember what's where.

Third, I don't have to assay for the high spots. If I assay and find some lows and mediums, or if I watch what other people are doing/producing, I can make guesses as to where the highs are.

Now, you can say "Someone with perfect memory can keep track of everything I have; someone who can deduce locations as well as I can will deduce the same high spots". But there seem to be very few people like that.

Right now, I tend to win crysite wars, and lose to people who pump smithore high twice.

[Rhodan]

</lurk>
Using game theory(!), we can deduce:

1. Analyzing the pay off matrix suggests that assaying is a losing strategy. You spend time assaying that could have been better spent developing land, hunting the wampus or even gambling, while sharing the fruits of you labour with the competition.

2. Tragedy of the commons: if everyone plays a winning strategy (i.e. by not assaying), everybody loses in that it becomes difficult to optimize your crystite strategy.

To Assay....or Not to Assay....That is the question...
[...]
As it is now, it is a part of your strategy - do you assay for highs and try to build around them - hoping the other do not steal the mediums or high itself?

The pay off matrix clearly suggests that you're a loser if you assay and a winner if you leach off everybody else' assaying, hence assaying unfortunately is a part of everyone's strategy. The question is only whether you play it optimally (don't assay, but leach) or not (squander your time assaying and inform everyone of where the goddies are stored).

Do you not assay and just try to keep your plots together for production bonus?

The question can never really be answered because each player reagrds the question differently

Even though you don't go after getting the high crystite plots, you would still pick a possible high or medium over a possible low or none when trying to maximize EOS. So, assaying would still be of value to you.

The results are now visible to all, so it does create competion for plots and this IS and WAS part of the fun of the original version (and punching your opponent when he stole your plot)

Even though everyone would have to assay for themselves, there would still be competition for the best plots.  But there would be asymmetric information, benefiting those who make informed decisions after assaying. Also, by making assaying hidden, you would force all players to make more tactical decisions during development - which is good. Assay, develop, hunt or gamble? If assaying, then which plot(s) to assay? Etc.

IMHO: today's assaying scheme can only be played optimally by not assaying. The only ones who don't understand that are newbies. The old-timers are therefore leaching off the newbies using a bad function of the game.
<lurk>

Correct me if I am wrong but you are saying players that assay loose?
I assay first round then assay whenever time is available after development.
I am winning nearly %50 of my games.
So I will have to conclude assay helps win games. I have watch top players not assay and end  up with no stite thereby loosing.
Currently stite vs ore is well balanced. It takes producing both to win. Hit the high in ore then swap to stite. Its rare when a players wins by producing only stite or ore for a whole game.

[rodz]

my 10 cents of thought on this subject, for what its worth are.
i seldom assay if ever as i don't like others to know where HI's are and besides there are 4 of them
if someone finds a HI i will try to get it if in position
i take an educated guess on first plot selection and build around it ( if i get it wrong will change my strategy to try and win game without stite) doesn't work most times.
i would like to have assays hidden to all but player doing them and i would do some assaying
other than that i say keep status quo