V.1.3.0 Land Auction Change

[Rhodan]

This is a terrible change. The complete opposite direction from the original atari version
In the original version you could raise the price and back out. If a plot didnt sell the auction would end and another plot would not be auctioned that round. The latter (auction ending) being the change we needed.
This change jeopardizes the play balance in the game.

[Mt-Wampus]

Who cares about the original version! The original wasnt perfect ! I welcome any change to the auctions! This business of raising prices and dropping off screen sucks!

[bloodstock]

Minor changes!!!!!!!!!!! Who cares, your not gonna please everyone.

[kipley]

This change jeopardizes the play balance in the game.

It removes a specific play tactic, and changes the gameplay from the original version of MULE, on that much I'll agree.  But I'm not convinced that it unbalances the game.

If I understand the new Land Auction change correctly (and I haven't actually played a game in the new version yet, so I could be wrong), the net gameplay effect of the change is that you can no longer raise the auction price of a plot of land way up, and then decide not to buy it, thus preventing other players from buying the land at a reasonable price.  So the question becomes, is this a desirable change to MULE?  I would argue that it is an improvement to the game.

I never enjoyed the possibility of the land auction spoiling gambit for two reasons:

1.  It wasted a lot of time.  Waiting for someone to march the price way up, only to end up NOT buying it, got old really quick.  It interrupted game flow, and made the game drag on longer, all so that NOTHING would occur during the auction.

2.  The players who could actually use this gambit to their advantage are the players with a lot of money.  And/or, they were the players who already owned so much land that they didn't really need to buy more, instead they were more interested in preventing other players from catching up to them in land ownership.  In both cases, the players using this gambit tended to be the ones winning the game.  (Players owning more money and/or land than their opponents are usually in the lead, or are in a great position to take the lead by turn 12).  Given that MULE is all about making things tough for the the leading players while giving benefits to the trailing players, leaving in a gambit that ONLY the leading players will use seems contrary to that core game philosophy.

[Mt-Wampus]

Bravo Kipley! My thoughts exactly! Old auction system was a joke! Love the change.

[dynadan]

I haven't played yet with the changes either.  But i applaud the change.  I agree with all of kipley's points but can also see one more useful thing that should help the skilled players also.  If we have lost the ability to run up auctions then once everyone has a lot of money we are all going to have to decide the true value of a plot of land and bid accordingly.

I have seen a lot of people running up land not because they are happy with the status quo, but because they don't know what a plot is worth and so they would rather have no one buy than have someone get a good deal or themselves a bad deal.

Also this could unlock a lost feature of the game which is the player selling their own land in the auctions.  Before when people finally got enough money to even consider selling your land they would just run it up and it would go unsold.  Now if almost every plot is going to get sold it may enhance gameplay, as well as save us a lot of time waiting for the run up auctions to run their course.

M.U.L.E. is amazing because after 25 years the game still holds up really well.  But it is not a perfect game.  The gaming industry has learned a lot through out the years.  I happily await further changes that enhance gameplay and encourages game balance with a good mix between luck and skill.

[leahcim99]

I think we should try it out for a while....seems like a good change, however, Rho's point is valid - once a plot goes unsold, auction should end.

Like all changes, some of us will like and support, and some of us will not.

[C64 nostalgia]

I agree with Rhodan. The wise change would have been ending further land auctions if there was a no sale. The current change, of effectively removing backing out, overcompensates and tries to correct for non-existent problems.


Reading the other posts, I see two main complaints about the older land auction.

1. Time
MULE is a long game... It has always been so. If shortening the game is a goal, we should start with the many small pauses and speed-up productions. These simple changes wouldn't affect game mechanics.

2. Land/Money/Fairness/.../.../...
Land is gold. $2,000 for a plot of land is a good price. Anything less is cheap. $3,000 for a plot can make sense... and sometimes so could $4,000... When, I'm in a land auction I generally try to buy if I can; raise the price because it's too low (and I don't have enough to buy it); or try to push the price high enough so no one wants to buy it. However, the last option usually only happens when many have a lot of money. Taking away the last option makes land too cheap when most have lots of money towards the end of a game. Additionally, it will hurt those towards last place because the rich are buying up the property they would have been granted next turn.

[dynadan]

ok, I have played a half a dozen games with the change and I still think it's a great change.

I understand Rhodan's point and stopping auctions when a plot goes unsold was a possible solution.  But does that mean you would also stop auctions earlier in the game when a plot goes unsold?  Lots of times people pay $60+ dollars so that next plot will go unsold.  Sometimes this works and sometimes it backfires when a 3rd plot comes up for auction.  Stopping auctions on every unsold plot erases that situation.  Which I don't think would be a positive change.

I haven't seen any unbalancing aspect of this change.  All it has done is added some thinking into what you should bid in the later auctions.   If you bid correctly on what the land is worth to you you will gain an advantage.  If you bid incorrectly on what land is worth to you you will be hurt.  Each plot has a different value to each player and it also varies depending on which round it is.  This adds a great new dimension to the game.

[Mt-Wampus]

I think we should try it out for a while....seems like a good change, however, Rho's point is valid - once a plot goes unsold, auction should end.

Like all changes, some of us will like and support, and some of us will not.

Just because a plot goes unsold doesnt mean there should be no further auctions that round! Dont agree. Players might pass on purchasing a plot because the plot for sale has no real value to them or is out of their area or who knows what? The next property might be of huge value with players willing to bid for it.

[Blitzen]

You moon-pies are loud but you've used an axe to fix a tooth ache, congratulations, I will be sticking with the c64s I guess.

And I was all excited about a server version to combat the cheating whore who had messed up the community for months now.

I'd rather play with myself, than even try it with changes like these going down.

WTF?!?

[C64 nostalgia]

I have participated in many "new" land auctions now. I think the "fix" is worse than my previous post explains. So, the following is an addendum.

Graphical depiction is broken.
Auctions are about numbers. The space between top price and low price is a visual representation of those numbers. The new "fix" breaks this visual paradigm. Now, a blind gap exists for players to get lost in.

The widely suggested fix is to speed up the timer, slow down the players, and/or increase the number range between the top price and the low price. This fix would ensure the graphical depiction is meaningful.

[Mt-Wampus]

Everybody quit complaining about every little thing and be happy that there is even a online Mule game to play! I remember back when people sat around a Pong game and had a blast with no complaints and now people complain about EVERY little imperfection on the planet. People have become greedy and spoiled!

[cuda 4508]

Everybody quit complaining about every little thing and be happy that there is even a online Mule game to play! I remember back when people sat around a Pong game and had a blast with no complaints and now people complain about EVERY little imperfection on the planet. People have become greedy and spoiled!

What did u expect. Peeps what to play MULE. Not some version u like.

I guess as long as your getting what u want that makes it OK.

[Peter]

I think that ending the auctions if a land goes unsold can be a good idea. Mainly because it saves some time.

But I much prefer the way land auction works now compared to the previous way where you could block it by walking up high and then backing out.

However, if you have better solutions to suggest they are welcome.

In the original game you walk so slowly so you don't have time to back out. I'm not sure if the timer slows down either when you're walking like it does in Planet Mule? So that's one possible solution.

Peter
Planet Mule Team