awesome work Chris......What a cute MULE couple.  Keep up the great work!

@Mainstream...I understand your reasoning on the last assay subject.  While I don't think the developers put in the catch wumpus thing the second after you assayed, I think it was an accidental improvement to the game.  I also enjoy watching people (me included) fail at trying this.  I also didn't understand why everyone can't do this....It's not like it requires any special abilities....just the knowledge that it is possible and then trying it out.

I appreciate you explaining that you use the log to make the bot run.... How about if we could ask the developers to move the number of auctions onto the next round or after the auctions have taken place etc.  For me this isn't a hosting bot issue, but instead an issue of having the log have real time info that should not be available yet.  Just wanted your thoughts on the subject?  Would making this change have any effect on your hosting bot or how the game runs?  I never realized this info was available in the log info, and I think having it available whether thru the log file or the hosting bot command makes the game worse.  Auction gambits are one of the key elements to the game.

As far as the last assay and event tracker i concede that they do not make huge changes to the game, I was just commenting more on the purity of the game of mule, and what i would like to see in a perfect world.  To me having an auto host bot is well worth these changes.

So there are my thoughts....I still think we should try to get rid of the current auction info from the log.

I don't know what obscure records you have thought of so far, but figured i better try to contribute something positive if i am going to voice criticism.

[Happy Go Lucky]  Most good events in 1 game
[God Hates Me]  Most bad events in 1 game
[Curious Cat]  Most assays done by a player in 1 game
[Inquisitive]  Most assays in 1 turn
[Fleeced]  Most Crystite stolen in a single turn
[Pillaged]  Most Cystite stolen in a full game
[Plundered]  Most Crystite stolen from a colony in a single turn
[Ransacked] Most Crystite stolen from a colony in a game
[Hunter]  Most $ received from wumpus in a single game
[Parcel Party]  Most auctions in 1 game
[Tycoon]  Most pieces of land bought by 1 player in a game
[Merciless]  Largest margin of victory between 1st and 2nd
[Pitiful]  Largest margin of loss between 4th and 1st

I haven't weighed in on the bot yet so here goes...

First off, THANK YOU Mainstream!!!!  I know you have put a lot of effort into the auto hosting bot and it has been a genuine service to the MULE community.

I have the same problems with the bot as everyone else....namely that it is supplying information that should be hidden.  I agree you can plan your auction strategy if you know how many auctions are coming....but that unknown variable is an important aspect of the game.  Likewise keeping track of events is something that each player should be responsible for.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the last assay command.  IMHO paying attention to assays is an important part of the game.  I am personally against all of the assay tracking programs, and have never used them myself (I prefer to just watch and train my brain to remember)  But i understand that everyone has their own way of doing things ....as many have pointed out they could always use pencil and paper.  But i think having a last assay command is going too far.  It also erases one of the advanced techniques of assaying and catching the wumpus to hide the results.  Notice I say technique and not exploit.  Using this technique takes advanced planning, some luck, and of course the player that is doing the assaying deserves a small edge for doing the assaying.

So I think those 3 things should be taken out of the bot.  However, we are asking the wrong person to take them out.  Mainstream has done a fantastic job with this bot, and as he has pointed out several times all this info that people are complaining about is in the logs (something i never knew).  Too be honest i have checked out the logs a few times and find them far too confusing to get any useful information out of.

So my solution to this problem is simple......We need to petition Turborilla to not make the logs accessible until the game is over, or possibly just put a 90 minute delay on the game logs.  I have always been an advocate for a level playing field, and having the more tech savvy players being able to gain extra information seems wrong to me.

Obvious troll guys.....the broken english thing was a very small chance that it wasn't a troll.....but the multiple misspelling of girl as gril is just way to obvious.  Plus we should all know by now that there are no real girls on the internet.

Null what makes it so funny is that simplathebest and his other aliases uschi, akire1, etc is well known to be the biggest cheater planetmule has ever had.  He ALWAYS hosts, always picking off the new players who don't know not to play him.  He also always plays with 2 ai most the time and has caused many many new players never to play again.

So while sockmonkey is an offensive little twerp, with a severe form of internet tourettes......he is no simplathebest.

Either way they should both be on everyones no play list.

ok since you insist you are not trolling i will play along.

A good mix of luck and skill is what mule has always been about.  The player events that punish the 1st place player and rewards the lower placed players was one of the great innovations that M.U.L.E. brought to the video game world.  Trying to position yourself lower is most certainly not an exploit of any kind, but instead a strategy.

As far as the land point goes, there is a lot of different opinions on what the value of a given piece of land is.  It sounds to me like you ran up following someone and then at the last second they ran down.... Land auctions work pretty good right now compared to how they used to work....if you don't want to pay too much for land don't go higher than you want to pay....but why begrudge advanced players from using advanced techniques on each other?

Same thing with the various auction dances....often times 1 unit of food or energy is worth a different amount than the next.  Dancing up and down during an auction is considered rude if it has no purpose, but it is such a rare occurance that in my close to 500 games of MULE i think i have only seen it 3 times, every time by brand new players.

Moving on to the "mule stampede".  I am guessing you witnessed someone letting mules go from the store.  This is indeed a valid strategy to create a 2nd smithore shortage, and there are several strategies to defend against this very thing.  Letting mules go can also be used to deprive other people of mules.  Either way this is not an exploit, but a strategy.

M.U.L.E. was a ground breaking game that was very far ahead of its time.  This is a tribute site to honor the game.... I have been where you are, trying to make improvements that i thought would improve gameplay, and having everyone shoot them down.  But I think before you can really appreciate the fine points of this game you should play 50+ games.  This game is very subtle.  Some of the strategies are so subtle, that it is not surprising that you don't recognize yet that they are strategies.  I know that there seems to be a lot of luck in this game, but in the long run the most skilled players will always win much more frequently that the lesser skilled players.

I think why you got flamed so much is your use of the word "exploit".  Nothing in your posts were exploits of any kind.  I know that's what set off my sarcastic 1st response.  You came onto a fan site for a site dedicated to a legendary game nearly 30 years old, and then called everyone who plays it an exploiter for playing the game how it was always meant to be played.  I'm quite surprised more replies weren't like MSM's.

Rough start on the forum aside, I hope you stick with it and become a MULE junkie!

congratz on 1st to 1k gamez

Death to all smurfz!!!

Your friend,
   Gargamelz

I don't think we were picking on him....I just assumed he was trolling us and i trolled right along.   I didn't even read the other comments before i posted.  For the record I still think he is kidding and you can't take a joke MW.

haha JooJoo very good comedy post.  You forgot one exploit though.

5. People are unfairly using their brains to figure out the price they are willing to buy or sell their units for.  Then they are exploiting the game mechanics to use the up and down arrows to unfairly position themselves at that price they had previously used unfair tactics to figure out.

the best indicator is the hosting %.... if its below 80% beware.  The win % advice, while coming from a good place, is wrong....many of us do indeed have over 40% wins...most the top level people are between 45%-55% and are the most ethical of the players on planet mule.  The best advise I can give is to search a players name in either the hi-scores or the ranks area of this website and look at the chat history of their last few games.....the very few bad hosts that exist show themselves to be untrustworthy nearly every game they play.

Welcome to Planet Mule and enjoy your stay

collusion was arguably a decent thing when everyone was playing in the same room.  Where you could actually punch someone in the face when they took things too far.  But over the internet it is definately a very very bad idea and would make everyone quit playing.  It is possible to collude now, by 1 player paying $500 for another players units not for personal gain (food or nrg shortage) but just to transfer money.  This type of behavior is considered very bad sportsmanship.

Your other suggestion is very good and and could help bring back some of the excitement when a game is about to start.

Ok i have given this quite a bit of thought and since no one else has weighed in, I will do my best to give some suggestions on how to fix the current AI.

I think that how the AI currently handles smithore is pretty good.  It always seems to do the right thing for the 1st ore shortage of the game.  The few changes i would make is on round 8 or after i would just set the AI to horde smithore and not to sell for less than $100.  Also, at the end of a round if the AI has more than 30 ore at round 8 or higher it should start trying to switch its ore plots to crystite.  Also, any time the supply of ore in the store is 100 or greater the AI should switch its ore plots to stite.

I think the main reason everyone hates the current AI is how it handles food and energy.  I believe the solution is to give up its food and energy strategy.  I have only witnessed 1 person ever win with a food and energy stategy and it was one of the best players on planet mule (I am looking at you Brad1867)  My solution is simple but should be effective.  Using the same rules as the current AI uses, make the Maximum food plots the AI can have be 2.  And make the maximum amount of energy plots be 3.  This should not only help the AI improve its game, but will prevent it from producing everyone elses food and energy.

Land valuation is a very hard question to answer.  I don't think we have to develop an equation that lets the AI accurately value land.  Instead I think the trick is to come up with general valuations so that the AI doesn't let someone buy land for far below market value (like it does now). 

1.  The AI should always leave itself enough money to buy 1 mule plus $100.  (i know that it will have 2 empty plots if it is successful but i think that's ok)
2.  The maximum the AI should pay for land in round 1-3 should be $800
3.  The maximum the AI should pay for land in 4-5 should be $1750
4.  The maximum the AI should pay for land in 6-8 should be $2250
5.  The maximum the AI should pay for land in 9-12 should be $1500
6.  The maximum the AI should pay for a river plot is $1150

I think with these changes the AI would start playing fairly competitively.  If anyone has a different viewpoint or different valuations, or have any questions about why or how i came up with any of my numbers i will be happy to discuss or debate in this thread.  Again, this won't make the AI play better than the better human players, but should allow the real players to play without being able to manipulate the mistakes the AI makes now, and occasionally give the AI a decent chance to win.

I believe turn 12 is exempt from surprise no food ending.  I think it's because there is no demand.  I don't have any definite evidence, but it seems like a fairly common situation as everyone usually switches their food plots to energy for round 12.

That's because losing sucks!!!

Seriously though.  Thanks for all the great drama.

I feel both sides pain....I remember when i had about 30 games under my belt and ended up having a terrible start where i was food starved for 8 rounds....It is pretty damn boring... I even threatened to quit at 1 point i think.

But forcing 3 people to listen to the mule music while trying to stay attentive in case you click for 30 minutes is a fate i would not wish on my worst mule enemies

Judgement Plaintiff

Null you have been found guilty of falling asleep during a hosted game of Mule.

This court hereby sentences you to 30 minutes of mule theme song listening.  May God have mercy on your soul.

Thank you Death for the very entertaing read.  I'd like to pretend that Muzzer was just being a troll and trying to get you upset.  Unfortunately, I realize there are really idiots that think the way he does.  I agree with just about everything you had to say Mulesizeme.  In the future people will look back at the US's war on drugs the same way we look back on prohibition and segregation.....with scorn and disbelief.  I pity Muzzer for his closed minded world view the same way i pity racist old men going to a klan rally.  The only good news is they are both a dieing breed that our grandchildren won't have to live with.