Planet M.U.L.E.

I have heard a rumor there is a program similar to the ""crystiter""  but is a cheat that some how predicts where the high tite plots will be I have seen some players only recently pick 2 highs and 2 mediums on the 1st 4 land grabs,,,, more often thahn is possible by random chance and these ""plot picks"" were not near any assy. furthermore a player confided that this software is used in some other game  but can be used for mule.
I know for a mathematical fact this is possible............[if you care look up the story of math students that won keno]  ...[those students cracked the random code....its nit truely random  it repeats every 10,000,000 times..easy for a computer to pick out your place in the 10 billon repeat pattern]  enough of the details  i was told the program is called ...........raider,radar,crystite raider,crystite finnder,tite raid, or something similar i find it hard to believe  the neat little nest of plots  again eithout any assay to give a clue  and the person that told me it existss
please tell me if this is real or if i am a retard

i'm not sure of the rationale behind the paranoia but atari is definately onto something here... i mean when a plot is chosen bottom left two in with no mountains and it is a high then it could be a fluke... but when the next choice is top left 3 in no mountains and thats a high as well (with no assay to predict) then i say there is some truth to ataris assertions... the player i'm thinking of either has incredible intuition or has an extra tool in the kit

Been thinkin about it, cause Atari has brought this up on the facebook group a few times.  I dismissed it at first, but I've started brainstorming the idea.  We do have a few knowledgeable programmers playing this game.  If someone set their mind to reverse engineering the mapping system, it is theoretically possible to input the "game sector" into a home brewed map generator and get a tite prediction.  The sector listed at the bottom of the game window at the start of each game using X,Y coordinates.  It's in parenthesis after the game name.

I am not a programmer, but it seems that Java scripts are easily debugged, and it probably wouldn't be all that hard.  If someone has done it, that would be pretty frustrating.  I hate the idea, but if it has been done, I think we all should have access to it so everyone has the advantage, which would even out the playing field and take said advantage away.  It's the only solution I can come up with.  Getting someone to own up to it and post the software tho, lol...  ...GOOD LUCK with that one.

Well, studying the game log, and I had been told the log doesn't say where assays were done, but I have studied it quite closely now, and it does, IF THE ASSAY WAS DONE USING A.I.  It says the type of plot assayed, and the map co-ordinates of that plot...


You see above, "D.A.N." assayed "River (4,4)"  - No Crystite Found then he assayed "Plain (8,3)" - Again, No Crystite Found.

My thought, while this does not preemptively tell you where the tite is, there is very likely some way to do a preemptive assay of every plot in the game with an external java class written to send an assay command to the game for every single plot on the map before round 1 development is even complete, or maybe even started by some modified AI code that covertly interacts with the game.

It does seem though, that if it is used, it very likely would show up in a game log, but I'm not entirely sure of this.  So if you play a game where you think it's happening, study the log.txt file in your mule\data folder after the game (before you enter another game, as it will auto erase unless you rename it as soon as your enter a new room.)

Is there any truth to players reading the code?  I have played games before where players predict the events that are going to happen with 99% certainty.  In those games there have been accusations about reading code (more than reading the game logs), but it only seems to be a few who have the goods to access and convert the data to useable info.  I use the seat-o-the-pants method myself...

All true, but... ...there are people in this crowd that I am sure are qualified hackers, and Java is a relatively easy binary to decompile and write cheats for.  I'm not a programmer, but based on the study I've done, I don't think it would take me more than a few days to learn to program in Java sufficiently to write a good basic Java applet.  (Provided I wanted to dedicate that much of my time to something that dreary to me.)

Some people make hacking their primary priority in life, and those types would go through that effort.

see it is possible,If you know enogh you can also have your program scan the log  with out leaving a trace ...ie it scans then has a "delete" all characters the  program put in the log.  it may just quicky assay all plots  in 2-3 seconds  then wipe it's digital "fingerprints"  and display the results on a modified crystiter  type map....................now that this info is out...........   game could be ruined!
poss fix limit assays somehow  max 3 per turn per player in the software....that may stop any program from assay entire map before the game even starts.   I was told the software is for another game. but was modified for mule.



ps..and i was worried about disconnects lol



and crystite should not be mined on plots that have no crystite. it makes no sense.............in the real world economy of scale and bigger factories are useless if the land contains no gold in the first place.....think???? who needs the high plots when 9 or 12 connects with 0  crystite  can some how still make 70-90 units it deafeats the purpose having high plots in the 1st place. crystite should only scale on plots that actually contain crystite

if u can magically mine tite where none exists then why not mine in the river? which people do in the real world for gold??
it would make some games  fun no food  becuse greedy miners in the river hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

thank you for reading

I would imagine the hackers would make a duplicate of the java resource files before doing their voodoo, then  the only evidence is on the audit logs of that PC.  On the crystite topic, this game is trying to be as faithful to the original concept as possible, in in that concept there are fixed economic priniples at play (ecomomies of scale, specialization, etc).  Essentially, the more you do something, the better you get at it.  For example: My house does not sit on a gold vein area, but if I dig down 50 feet on my lot and sort it, I bet I find trace gold.  If I am skilled at extraction, I know even more techniques to detect and collect gold on any property and I have better success.  If I have more property to search more success.  Therefore I think the game has it right to a degree. 

But, Atari, take note, the log only shows WHERE the assayed plots are if it was assayed by an A.I. player.  Human player assays don't get the location logged in the primary game log at all.  I'm sure it is stored somewhere but not in the user log area.  I'm not sure where it is stored, has to be stored somewhere, maybe just in active memory, which means some binary code breaking would have to be done to extract the information.

yes but if u understand the code im sure u pose as an ai,perhaps that makes it even easier to do it then no trace at all ai zoom in and is gone that souns like an even easier"backdoor" into the map

Yeah, that's exactly what my thot was, and it's Java, which isn't that hard to understand, so if you could decompile the code, it's just the time it would take to read through hours and hours of source to find the code that controls the map and write some kinda of covert bot to read the map.

Atari, is paranoid, but that doesnt mean people arent out to steal all his deserved tite land from him.

Life isnt fair. Governments and large corporations conduct all sorts of nefarious operations against us. We can spend our lives worried about that or we can maximize our potential within our realm of possibility. I envy Atari, because he has vast swathes of mule knowledge yet to gain and with a little effort he is going to see massive improvement in his game regardless of the potential existence of cheating. He is an active player and a willing student. I hope all of you will help turn him into a champion with all your great advice.

Chuckie's answer that we all be granted access to any potential cheats makes sense given the slippery slope we've already travelled with the tite trackers (this is why they are bad folks, it leads to more and more cheats along with their rationalisation. Although it makes sense it would be disasterous to further spread this problem and should be discouraged.

This is just a game. Ranking up can be addictive, but its also sad to have wasted all that time. I find it kind of embarassing. The only reward for me and many others is fun. People that cheat are only ruining the game for themselves because they are missing out on the fun. If they think people are impressed by their actions they are mistaken. Im sure most top players wouldnt get much out of this cheat and would be the mid ranked guys that would be tempted. I think it would fun to prevail against those intermediate players armed with cheats. When you play with the very top guys you realize there is a level of advanced strategy that is so subtle some people will never understand it.

In summary, if you could all be a little more like Nordel, the world would be a better place.

Completely disagree with you about tite trackers.  People been tite tracking on paper for years.  It just saves paper.  However, tite predicters, I have a problem with, but if someone is using one, I think it's fair to even the odds.  It will take the benefit of a cheater using one.

Not suggesting someone program one, because I would prefer that it wasn't done, but if someone does discover that someone indeed has, it should be published.

If its ever published, the game is over. Keep it to the couple of people using it now, and the game has a hope of carrying on. Is it fair? No. Does it matter? No.

There are many people in the planet mule community who have low self esteem due to their gender confusion issues/lack of english (europeans). Maybe winning a few games is self medicating to them. Another benefit is that when someone like Atari loses, he can now think 'Im awesome, I only lost because they cheated'. You see, the possibility of cheating also can help that player's ego. With all the delicate egos intact we can retain as many players as possible and have enough liquidity to prevent excessive wait times.

Tite trackers are fine. I agree. However, they are the gateway drug to this other type of cheating. Not all marijuana users go on to heroin, but most heroin users started with marijuana.

wow jag  did you even bother to read the original post, It was titled "possible new cheat" I was very clear that somene told me of its existence that was the point of the post to verify if it was true or BS. And i pointed out an example of several SUSPICIOUS CIRCUMSTANCESI i dot not claim it was fact just asked the general community if anybody else heard of it simple. Then the discussion went on about whether it is possible or not. Now enterjagov808running of an a crazy tangent about ........gender confusion and drug abuse and blaming losses???? wtf

what the  F@$ck are you talking about? your wild tangent kind of makes me think you are on drugs or something? start a new discussion becuase your last comment was far far beyond the scope of the post, it was a ? i never blamed any loss for it and merly was speculating on its very existence  read your reply's before you post them please.!!!....................heroin,self esteem, gender issues,ego where did that come from???   seriously what the fuck are you even talking about???????

 seriously what are you on and where can I get some of it!!!!

Oh, memories... I had a lucky game when I got three high plots, but I guess I lost to ore anyway. :P All this stuff about cheating is usually simple stuff, it reminds me to a MS-DOS tool/program back in my days, I'll call it just "CM", but I guess some of you might already know it.

While you had it active, you could search for variable adresses into the loaded game. Example: If I'm in a game and I pick up 500 gold, I use the CM to look for variables with value 500. It returns several ones fitting those values. I keep playing, and I get 250 gold more, search for variables with value 750 now. Bingo! Only one variable returned. I give a custom name for that variable address and I can change its value in any "future" visit. Set it to 10.000, and you have free gold now. It would be the same case if there were any similar tool like that one for windows.

I'm not into Java, but I guess the thing would go like this. When a MULE game is created (when map is defined, possibly), the Crystite plots are defined on it. In that moment the plots are defined, no need for assays, the values will be out there somewhere, into some unknown addresses, into variables. Let's imagine it uses an array of variables to define the field, 45 values in it. If you manage to detect the location of those values, you would be able to "read" them in any game with that tool as soon as those variables are created. No need even to start the game, as soon as those variables are initializated you would have access to their values if you know their location.

If the crystite "seeds" are randomly created, only the address locating would work. However, if they used some pattern based on other stuff (like map number), they would be more predictable and easier to deduce. Truly you can make a crystite tracker that "solves" the field as soon as you have the right assays done, but it would be much slower than the "direct-to-address" espionage. And yes, this kind of tools kill the fun factor of the game if abusing them, but they are out there anyway.

Sorry Atari. I didnt mean to single you out. I was using you as a class of player rather than you distinctly. You represent the up and coming intermediate player with an unnatural passion for the game.

Do people cheat in the means you suggest? Perhaps, as this discussion has surmised it is possible both from a motivation standpoint (to feed one's ailing ego due to unresolved gender issues) and from a technical standpoint.

'Olyslager and Conway presented a paper[36] at the WPATH 20th International Symposium (2007) arguing that the data from their own and other studies actually imply much higher prevalence, with minimum lower bounds of 1:4,500 male-to-female transsexual people and 1:8,000 female-to-male transsexual people for a number of countries worldwide'

On planet mule we are probably running at a 1 in 20 rate. Which as you can see from the numbers Atari is a very disproportionate number, not that there's anything wrong with that.

The question ought not to be whether the game is fair but rather is it fun. Each game of mule ought to be a joyous occasion where we pay homage to our inspirational leader Nordel.

I still don't get why you worship Nordel.  Maybe you are one of those gender confused people...  you sure seem in love with him for some unfounded reason.  Perhaps you should propose to him, lol.

I don't see anything that makes Nordel particularly special.

I admire JFK, does that mean I want to engage in homosexual necrophilia?

Nordel is admirable because he doesnt cheat, advocate cheating, or complain about cheating. He just plays, hosts, wins. Nordel is gold!!!

On the tite cheating scandal, I should mention I put together a 9 pack of land with little tite on it, which ended up producing more tite than a gentleman who was lucky enough to have attained 3 high tites. I think the production bonuses are a great balancing feature in the game. It is also quite realistic as uneconomic metals become economic once the surrounding mines and infrastructure are built.

Btw, there really are many trangendered people here, I think I've seen 3-4. I have never met any in real life. If people are happy, than Im all for it. Im just trying to create in my mind some type of scenario in which people find it fun or reasonable to employ active and passive aids in this game.

I figured I would jump in here from a programming perspective.

First, lets talk about Atari400's claim.   There have been claims about a Mule cheats since I started playing on here, and prob before..  No one has ever produced any evidence of their existence, other than "I have been told by someone"

I myself have been accused of cheating.. "your bots tell you where the tite is.." etc etc..

Now that I have released the software for the bots, you can obviously see that there is no connection between the bot software and the Mule, other then keystrokes, log monitoring and mouse clicks.   One of the crystite tracker (in which the source was released) looks for certain pixels to be a certain color on the mule screen to track what is being made and who owns each plot.

Like it has been said, plot placement and coversion strategy is much better then having 3 high tites.   

Now from a programmers perspective:

So how would a cheat for Mule work if someone wanted to build one?

Well first the idea of tite tiles being generated off of the sector id is a little out there.  More then likely the tite tiles are being generated at a random values for x, y.   then the medium and low values are filled in after.   But is it really random?  in programming most random number generators are based off of a seed value, this seed value is usually set to the timer of the computer (seconds since midnight)

The assumption is that the Host machine in mule would be the one that generates the map and then sync's the map to the other clients at the beginning of the game.   

So two possible cheats would be possible.  Write a program that could read a memory location on which the map values are stored.  This would require you writting a program that would be able to break into the Java runtime and read these values without causing an access violation, this may difficult but I'm sure someone who is good at writing viruses would be able to figure it out.

the second method would be using a network sniffer and monitor the packets from the host, and then figure out which packets contain the map information

the first and second method would only work if the host actually sends the map to the clients, (and the clients not request the tite values from the host when a survey is done)

Without decompiling or having access to the source for planet mule either way would be hard to figure out.

Most cheats for games involve changing values in save games or specific memory locations where the value is stored for money or inventory etc.

Can it be done for Planet Mule?  sure... but I don't think many of the people that have the skills to do it would waste their time on PlanetMule cheats.

and until someone has specific details on how the cheat works or proof then these are just rumors usually started by people who are losing and want an excuse.

I'm not sure if changing variables values would work in that case. If the player has a different value than the server, would the server take the value set by the cheater and re-send it to the other 3 players, or a desync would occur?

Keep in mind that there are free open source programs like the one I talked about at the grasp of anyone (program tools for dummies), no need at all for being programmer anymore. :P Not sure if it would work with Java, but in theory all programs work the same way. Variables are "floating around" somewhere, and once located they can be read by the user. If that is the case for MULE, it might be happening already.

Also, luck factor. Of 45 plots, 4 having high crystite, that is a 4 of 45 chances of getting one of those plots when grabbing (44 discarding the colony plot). So, a 9.09% (6.81% if one high is at the colony plot) chance can happen, but grabbing exactly each of the plots each round at the first grab would be weird indeed. Tracking said player for some time would help to solve the doubt.

Listen,
 We've all been there where we take a random plot and boom its a high-
Or purchase one.

IF there is someone out there with a tite cheat that works well, good for them-- they are going to do better I guess, but, consider this- knowing where the highs are might be good but if you are at the top of the game in first then you may not be able to grab those any way- and with careful assaying, you still might not be able to. And sometimes, i think knowing where the highs are screws up the overall game strategy my making clusters of multi colored plots all in one area...  I have had some good wins where I let other people go after the tire mediums and highs and block each other while I slowly build 7 or 8 connected plots that later help me achieve victory!

Hi all..

In my opinion it seems pretty logical that there could be a program that can tell
you the exact location of all crystite plots in a game. I have no need to discuss how
it would actually be done. Hell, it's a computer program and every program is hackable
or manipulable. True or not true?

We didn't even mention the prediction possibility of plots for sale during land auction.

(Sorry, I don't want to make things even worse for Atari400 ...  ;D)

I do think that having a great strategy and beeing able to adopt quickly to any situation
change are the real important abilities one should have when going for true victory BUT
just imagine what it would do to someone that also has some sort of land/tite predictor?

About Nordel.. indeed he is a nice guy. One of the better personalized guys out here.
Maybe Jago can set up a fan page about Nordel on Facebook?

  I think some of these people need to understand how assay works.  It really surprises me how many people are screaming cheater when they dont even pay attention to them :(

Thank you acavia you explain clearly what the purpose of the post is
so watch out for patterns of super lucky picks with same players over and over again  there is luck and super luck every game

I was thinking about mainstreams bot software, Iam not sure how it works but all those[bot:]  commands come from somewhere  so it is possible to  extract information from the game. even if the[ bot:] commands diplay info that could be written on paper or rem  how can u explain the [bot:ore] command or factor or probs  or enableauctions??????  if you can do those things It seem likely tite finder also be found same way

My understanding is the probabilities calculators reference the event logs and applies the formulas documented in "Kroah's Games Decompilation Page"

http://bringerp.free.fr/RE/Mule/mule_document.html (http://bringerp.free.fr/RE/Mule/mule_document.html)

One that basis the formulas are derived based on the original Atari M.U.L.E. but this game is supposed to match or nearly match those variables, so it's fairly accurate, if not 100%.

However there is not enough information in the logs to make a tite prediction using formulas from Kroah's, so you would have to be able to actually write a piece of software that actually has the ability to hack into the game client and read all the assays.  Since mainstreams bots are strictly chatter bots with external calcuators based on log information, they have no potential for doing so.

A hacker bot would be required to do an assay prediction.