Planet M.U.L.E.

Please give you're thoughts and feedback on version 1.3.5 in this thread. You can checkout the changes here:

http://www.planetmule.com/news/planet-m-u-l-e-version-1-3-5

 The patch is good, lowest rank wins land auction confirmed. As for a spike in food last rd...bot messed that all up. Thanks guys!







Dm17

Download links on planetmule.com are not working.

Will let you know about the update after I play a few games.

Thanks!

The download links are fixed now! Thanks for pointing it out.

Good update!

1st turn plot isnt so clear now... ;)
and the lowest rank wins at same money is good!

food spike in 12 - makes rivers MUCH more stronger! :)

won't let me join bot game. i downloaded 1.35 and the bot has 1.34 bs about new version

im not sure who is running the bots, but when i think they will change them soon...

I really did like the 1st auction to be a random one, but food spiking???? I think this destroys game strategy at all and I will explain why: 1. It makes crystite very very weak at end game. Remember that tite price is random and it varies from $48 to $148 MAX, food and energy being a MUST NECESSITY (Time and Production) through out the game like it should be (even thou you can still spike energy at end game) food now will become a money making item too. Remember that food and energy can go up to $215 if theres too much necessity and is easy to get a high price at end game cause player are too busy fortyfing their money making assets like ore and tite and producing less food and energy when game is on last 3 rounds to make the most money out of it. This is a strategy game!!! The guy with the best strategy should win if he or she can Stand the horrible events that can occur. Is not a random winner game!!. Adding food as a making money asset just by buying 1 piece at a high price on round 11th and 1 energy already being an asset that you can spike too doing the same thing, entirely destroys all planning through out 12 rounds of gameplay and becomes a time waster, knowing now that the game could end up in a 4 asset race instead of 3 not forgeting that production is random (1 player can beat another player on production even thou if both players have the same amount of plots with same amount of assets and all plots together) it doesnt matter. Like I said before, tite can only get to $148 , not like food and energy that can go up to $215 if a player buys 1 piece at high price making tite very very weak if a $48 to $84 price comes up on last round. Now players have to get rid of magic 9 and magic 12 developements and put some food and energy plots to avoid a high price spiking just cause a stupid player decided to spike price to have a chance of winning by the example I just gave about tite random price vs the price food and energy can get to(cause is not random). Players cant function without food and energy through out the game, those are a must need assets but making them part as a I can win asset because someone spike it ??? smashing out high tite and ore productions??? THE SPACESHIP WE BE BACK IN 12 MONTHS !!!! there is not suppose to be demands on food cause there is NOT a Round 13 !!!!!!!! Price shouldnt SPIKE!!! Sorry but I just dont like it.

I agree with Drilan to a certain extent, but I don't think food will spike that much in most games, eventhough the possibility is there. And that is a worry.

However, your argument that there is no round 13 holds true for energy as well. I always thought there was no point for an energy spike in round 12 because there is no round 13 (although continuous farming on Irata is up for debate). Food does not have the same property to spike in the quantity as energy does. It is a matter of supply and demand. The demand of food will be 5 food per player, as it was in the last few rounds, so 20 food in total. Any produce over 20 food would mean a reduction of the maximum price or so I am to believe. With energy this is different. You need 1 energy for every non-energy plot to produce. So, the demand for energy in round 12 is a lot higher than the demand for food (maximum demand for energy is 44, maximum demand for food is 20).

I do think that the hunt for high tite plots and the hunt for 3-mountain plots are an integral part of the game, even when the race for being last is a bit silly. But I also believe that the maximum price for food in round 12 being $42 was wrong. So my suggestion is that we look for a happy medium.

I think both energy and food should be capped in round 12. Capped to what price? I am not sure. maybe $148?

Legg


•The price of food in the final month will be calculated from supply and demand like any other month. The demand on the last month is considered to be 5 units of food per player. The demand was previously zero units.

Bots have been updated

I would have loved it had you fixed the auction trick of lowering prices, rather than simply fixing the crash!

I'm ok with the changes otherwise, maybe neutral.

We really could use improvement on drops, allowing one to reconnect if there is a disruption in your line.  And AI could be improved.

Don't forget guys, this version was meant to reflect the original version as much as possible and we were considering the in ability to spike food in last round to be an inconsistency.  I for one appreciate the fix.  The only reason for the new timing rule in round 1 land auctions is related to the unfairness created by network lag, so that is an inconsistency I believe was needed.  Good job admin, these fixes have been awaited for many many months. :)

So, basically what you two blokes are saying is you want to take away some strategies to make it more likely for you to control the outcome of the game because it would make Ore the only way to make any real money at the end.  Last round the game rather than being capitalistic would have a regime change and become a socialist economy.  No thanks.  You just don't want to deal with the unpredictability that made mule the game that it's been for 30 years.

Personal opinion, if you're gonna do it, you have to do it across the board, lock all the prices at there minimums last round (smith $30, tite $38, food $15, energy $10) because tite is just a jewel ore, smith, well regardless of whether you have empty plots or not, there is no longer a need for mules to develop them.  Sounds pretty dumb to me.

Don't like a truly capitalistic finish?  DONT PLAY!

I too do believe that food and energy price should be Cap on the very last round. Thanks Leggitte! (I was thinking the same thing but forgot to mention it). Why do I believe this like Leggitte already does?? Its simple: most players at end game, when they are losing ,they do stupid things and they start trying to buy food and energy at a very high price just to prevent really good players from winning or to give the game to someone else which is also considered colluding!! Another example is: a player can buy 1 piece of food at a very high price and do the same with energy and then disconnects, knowing that the AI bot have the ability to change from 5 to 6 plots in 1 development session(no matter where the plots are located) and have a real chance of winning if he can get a +$120 sale on either one. The thing is that now players can mess up games knowing that there's a 4th asset than can really do damage to game outcomes. Most of really poor playing players can take advantage of this and use it just like I said before(messing, colluding, etc...). My suggestion is to make a Cap between $100 and $120 in both food and energy on Round 12, so high productions of Tite(random price) and Ore(if there's a demand) doesn't loose all of its strength. Thanks everyone!! Long Live M.U.L.E !!!

It's not stupid, it's desperate strategy when the cards are stacked against them, but that's how the stock market is!  That's what the game is meant to reflect! Don't be narrowminded!

Finally having food calculate price in the 12th round according to supply and demand like it does in the previous 11 rounds is wonderful! It will give river plots more value in the end game. Instead of the one dimensional spike ore and finish with 11 crystite plots in round 12 you will now have to consider and fight to control the food market just like you do for ore and energy. Do I go all stite in the last round and hope for a high price? Will two players collude and sell or buy a energy ore or now a food unit to maximize their profit in the 12th for a win? Do I attempt to spike ore, energy or now food on my own for the 12th round? Will my opponents switch over and produce enough units to block me from spiking it?  Are all your plots on the right side of the river? Now you have another option to quickly switch plots and match the price and production of the player who has all the crystite plots to the left of the river. Its still a gamble. If to much food is produced over the demand of 20 then the price will still be considerably less then the cap of 215. This is a fix not a change! You played energy, smithore and FOOD in the first 11 rounds when ever  events, another player or you managed to spike the price! Finally food is back in the mix in round 12 instead of always being $15!

Thank You for fixing the food price in the 12th!

and btw: if its so easy to spike food in 12 - why you didnt spiked energy in 12? worked all the time...?
Because you need to spike 2 players?

And yes, it makes tite weaker - but: whats the problem? if there is the tite player, who goes straight to the pub in 11 and 12, why no food-spiking? or is it unfair to spike ore just because all plots are given and have a mule working on it?

Funny stuff, lol.  When I see that strategy put into practice it's by a player that saw the impending short fall on tite or smith, and the likely spike in food or energy.

Hey Folks,

Could it be you're all too fast jumping to conclusions on what the update eventually will do to the game?

Most of us out here follow the commonly known strategy to play the game. The real difference is that we all adopt our gameplay in a different way once that strategy needs some adjusting due to whatever happens during a particular game.

I think we must take the time to getting used to the new playing styles this new version is offering us.

I'd rather not jump to conclusions at this point. There's really just one thing that comes to mind while typing this, some sort of moral thingy:

Isn't food i.r.l. the most precious thing we 'posses' rather than all that materialism?  :-[

O yeah, i nearly forgot.. this is just 'a' game after all....  ;D

It's not any of that, that concerns me muleace.  It's the idea that this is supposed to be a capitalistic game, and some jerks want a regime change in round 12, where the economy turns socialist with the government regulating limits.  It would ruin the game.  No one allowed to make money if they aren't invested in ore or tite?  Come on, that's insane don't you think?

Yep, point there CC.

Furthermore, how come ore still has a high price even when everyone produced more than 50 units a person for example? Imo that price should drop too. I think they really should change that rather than what they did to the food recently.

But then, this may spoil game play as we know it for quite some time now. Games rely very heavily on the ore bizz.

Hmmm, maybe we should redraw the whole concept..

Its time to fix the price bugs in auctions!!

1.  If you sell your land, and it doesn't sell, the price doesn't lower.

2.  If a land auction is held but the current price is higher than any players can afford, the price should be set at the greater of (1) the land's net value or (2) the maximum amount held by the wealthiest player.  This fixes overbuying plots by $60 in a fair way, and doesn't waste time with pointless auctions.

Fixing these two price bugs would go a **long** way to improving M.U.L.E.!  More so than the 3 changes you just made.

It does lower, it cuts in half, and that's used as a strategy to get cheap plots when the richest person has the opportunity to undercut the competition by "mock selling" his own land so he can buy cheap plots.

As for changing the price on ore, I get why they don't have over production cuts like they do with food and energy.  The store needs the ore, we need the food and energy.  The store doesn't produce ore, so it relies on us to produce it, the stores demand doesn't change.  However, food and energy are high spoilage commodities.  If we are short, we are the ones who suffer (time shortages, production shortages.)  If we produce enough for ourselves, then there isn't any demand or as much demand and the store won't make any money if it doesn't come down on the price because no one would buy it when no one needs it, unless they are doing price fixing like they do with ore, and then that can be very costly for the player because of the spoilage factor, and it's easily overcome just by the players who are short making adequate productions the following round.

I believe all that was considered when the original was written.  Food spoils at 50% and has the greatest fluctuations in oversupply adjustments because that's fairly real world.  Energy spoils at 25% and has less pronounced fluctuations, but it does still have them, because storage batteries do slowly drain even if not used.  I believe the reason they capped ore at 50 is because a depot has a limit as to how much it can store at any given time, and they decided to make it 50 units.  Of course the store has much larger depots to store the ore than the players do, and for whatever reason, food and energy don't spoil in the store, probably because of refrigeration for the food, not sure how you'd preserve energy though.  Maybe that wasn't thought of?

In any case, the game finally reflects the original pretty much entirely I think now, and I'm very happy about that.

 I guess i jumped the gun on my views toward the new patch, It sucks!. It was my understanding that in a land race(land auction) , the last most player will win race everytime. Found out the hard way that this is not true, losing yet another plot to a higher ranking player(pappy). Now I find out this is for all other auctions besides the land auction. Question, when did anyone ever lose a race in buying food/nrg/tite/ore when in last most placement? Never as far as I can remember. So this auction fix is basically useless. Please fix this in next patch as people with high pings(250 or higher) are running wild buying plots in races for land when the're in first place. Which everyone replies with "wtf?"



 >:(
Dm17

The only change to auctions was to randomize the 1st round auction.  There is no possible way to overcome the lag issues that effect the other auctions.  Pappy's ping timings are perfectly matched to the lag differential programmed into the game, and makes him very likely to win most land auctions.  I don't think that's gonna change.

Hi,

Could you, Death_Mule17, or somebody else, describe a scenario where the last player didn't win the land auction?

If the players are standing at the same price and waiting for the land auction time to run out, then the last ranked player should always get the land, otherwise there's an error with the game.

However, if several players are still walking upwards when the auction ends, then there's a high probability that the host will get the land if there is a large network latency. That's how the game's networking code works currently.

We are noticing players with a lag just over 250ms tend to win in foot races (walking up until the auction ends)

This is very common in the bot games where grandpappysmurf (a.k.a. Rodz / Zdor) is playing.  He usually wins with an astounding lag of around 250ms when the other players are aveaging 80ms to 150ms.

We've attributed it to the adjustments that were once made to try to make the lag differential less notable.  I'm guessing it would take some special programming for the game to actively adjust the timings in the auctions to truly compensate for each players individual lag to bring everyone into perfect sync.  It should be doable though.

     Correction, Ive never seen grandpappysmurf lose a land auction race since the patch before last. I was hoping to see this fixed in last patch and watch pappy cry. This is a known issue amongs players, pappy averages 12plots per game....no joke. Which means you better be able to beat his magic 12 bonus or he wins everytime. I think this is an unfair advantage, and I think as of today I will never play pappy again. Here is the last game i played where i was shafted because of paps high (250)ping.-http://www.planetmule.com/hi-score-game/game?game_id=64574 (http://www.planetmule.com/hi-score-game/game?game_id=64574) and heres some of the chat-
MuleSizeMe: hes gonna win cuz of that

MuleSizeMe: that plot should be mine as new patch says lastmost always wins race

MuleSizeMe: fucking gitch city

MuleSizeMe: *glitch

shrtngr8: ur a noob

shrtngr8: he just had u beat

shrtngr8: there was no glitch

shrtngr8: glitches dont happen

MuleSizeMe: and you would know?

MuleSizeMe: i was holding up before it started

MuleSizeMe: this goes forum

shrtngr8: maybe u have too much semen in ur keyboard

shrtngr8: and it doeesnt work right

MuleSizeMe: maybe thats a fantasy of yours

MuleSizeMe: semen

grandpappysmurf: it has been like that for ages, you know i have hi ping!!

MuleSizeMe: ya but patch was suppose to fix that

MuleSizeMe: its one of the main points

grandpappysmurf: nope was never ,emtioned

grandpappysmurf: mentioned

MuleSizeMe: 3rd fix was lastmost always wins race

grandpappysmurf: nope

MuleSizeMe: ya

MuleSizeMe: its on home page

grandpappysmurf: not landauctions only for commoditities

MuleSizeMe: thats dumb

MuleSizeMe: why not for land?

Round 8 of 12

grandpappysmurf: how do y know

grandpappysmurf: i know

Please fix this in next patch, Its really a game breaker. and paps reaping the benefits



Disappointed,
Dm17

I have also experienced the same problem. Last place is not always winning the land auction race.
When it occurs it tends to be the player with the highest ping who wins despite not being the lowest ranked player for that round. I will try and gather more information as it occurs.

The land racing problem is really annoying, yup.
Since it seems not to be patchable, my suggestion would be to change/tweak the system even a bit more.

Here is my Idea:
Why not give each rank a headstart?
1-2 seconds(just an example) between each rank and it should all be fine. Balance restored! (sorry pappy :) )

Now there are 2 Questions left:
1)@Devs: would it be possible? Or is that too complicated/work intensive to be implemented via another patch?

2)@Players: Do you guys like my idea to be implemented?

Thx in Advance for any feedback

I think something has to be done to make the auction races fair and not always given to the guy with the highest Ping (sorry Grandpappysmurf). 

Since Pappy sits on the Board of Directors of Planet Mule I wouldnt hold your breath on that auction cheat being removed.  That would mean 10% less wins for Pappy (and we all know he hates losing more than a 9 yer old hates when they get their ice cream taken away).  That cheat move is kind of like Pappy's Ice Cream in a game.  It would be nice to see auction races become fair for everyone, but Pappy would vote to veto that every time or create a filibuster  on it delaying action on a change for years.  For those like MuleSizeMe who dont know what a filibuster is... A filibuster is a type of parliamentary procedure where an individual extends debate, allowing a lone member (Pappy in this case) to delay or entirely prevent a vote on a given proposal like a land auction cheat. It is sometimes referred to as talking out a bill, and characterized as a form of obstruction in a legislature or other decision-making body.

For those confused about the above referenced item [Planet(The One, Drilan, King) and Jedi] see translation..filibustero.  Hope this tidbit helps all and we can come to a quick resolution on this auction cheat that needs to be fixed more than anything...again (sorry Pappy but fair is fair)

   While on that note, can we clear up the filibuster where cbass uses 2 of his alto accounts in a game with 1 noob to boosts the allotted "true rank" points he receives when he wins? That would be even better than pappys land auction glitch being removed. eg.http://www.planetmule.com/forum?topic=1801.0 (http://www.planetmule.com/forum?topic=1801.0)
 And here is just this week, for that gold badge I suspect-

 Dec 23, 08:14- CBASS +1.0     Touchdownteufel +2.7     akire1pusy +0.6    AKIRE1 SUCKS COCK -2.1
                      CBASS +1.1             Daniel +0.7              Robolzer -0.1    akire1pusy -2.2
                      CBASS +1.0     ComradeKangaroo +0.8   AKIRE1 SUCKS COCK +0.1     Farmer_Ted -3.7
                      CBASS +0.9          devilyn +1.2                        firemt 0.0           AKIRE1 SUCKS COCK -2.1

Must you dupe noobs during the holiday season cbass?? You are the true grinch!!


happy holidays!
Dm17

http://www.planetmule.com/hi-score-game/game?game_id=66421 (http://www.planetmule.com/hi-score-game/game?game_id=66421)
http://www.planetmule.com/server/chats/chat_game_66421_user_20072.html (http://www.planetmule.com/server/chats/chat_game_66421_user_20072.html)
Tall tale time with cbass, while beating a supernoob and 2bots,
C64 was disconnected

Computer takes over C64

mule4u: Player Removed, votes required to restart: 1

mule4u: C64 Bot Reputation now: 35

Round 9 of 12

CBASS: U got this

Cyber Ranger: Really, another bot????

CBASS: dam!

CBASS: yup...C64 was disconnected

CBASS: i think MSM is up to no good

CBASS: he arrives and fire and C64 get disconnected by a remote host?

CBASS: MSM is trying to fuck u over

CBASS: after last night

CBASS: he has bot hosting powers that they just gave him

CBASS: he has the ability to kick people using the "remote host" server

CBASS: if u lose, which u shouldnt, its MSM's doing

CBASS: well at least u or i will get 1st and 2nd

Round 10 of 12

CBASS: shit!

CBASS: u have a very impressive record of not abandoning games

CBASS: thats why i give u so much credability with other players

Round 11 of 12

CBASS: dam u got a high up right!!!

CBASS: $48 tite!

CBASS: haha blue cant move

CBASS: u should pass him..u have awesome tite!

Round 12 of 12

CBASS: put tite out upper right

CBASS: its a high

Cyber Ranger: And he cheats my clock?????

CBASS: he is fucking u over

CBASS: dont let him win tho he wants u to abandon

CBASS: so he can tell everyone how bad ur reputation is

CBASS: he will post all over Forum..ive seen it

Cyber Ranger: I really don't care what he does/says....

CBASS: wait for game to say saved at end or it will give u an abandon

CBASS: true

CBASS: but if i win dont screw me out of the win by leaving b4 it saves please

Game Over

Saving score, please wait...

mule4u: Game Completed, Hosting Bot Will Start a New Game in 30 Seconds, Thanks for Playing.

CBASS: if MSM didnt kick those 2 players remotely u wuda won easily Cyber! those bots gave me nrgy and food..when humans wudnt have. MSM fucked u over this game! bigtime!

Cyber Ranger: I called him out and proved him wrong - that's what he doesn't like....

Score saved

CBASS: yup

  The guys fucking obsessed with me 24/7, And now hes stalking me!
All the while still cheating the rank point system in the unofficial "ranks". eg
Jan 25, 06:07 CBASS +0.7    akire1pusy +2.2    twiddledee +1.6    AKIRE1 SUCKS COCK -2.5
http://www.planetmule.com/hi-score-game/game?game_id=66424 (http://www.planetmule.com/hi-score-game/game?game_id=66424)


Needing a restraining order against cbass,
Dm17

I love it there should be checks and balances why not have a chance to win by being a farmer and energy mogul it would add a nice balance instead of always crtite or an ore spike ay end lets give the game more variables  somehow make it so a farming/energy staregy can work

Fascinating discussion. CBASS was quite a colorful character.

How do you start this game?  there's nothing to click that simply says, 'play'.