Planet M.U.L.E.

This is a terrible change. The complete opposite direction from the original atari version
In the original version you could raise the price and back out. If a plot didnt sell the auction would end and another plot would not be auctioned that round. The latter (auction ending) being the change we needed.
This change jeopardizes the play balance in the game.

Who cares about the original version! The original wasnt perfect ! I welcome any change to the auctions! This business of raising prices and dropping off screen sucks!

Minor changes!!!!!!!!!!! Who cares, your not gonna please everyone.

It removes a specific play tactic, and changes the gameplay from the original version of MULE, on that much I'll agree.  But I'm not convinced that it unbalances the game.

If I understand the new Land Auction change correctly (and I haven't actually played a game in the new version yet, so I could be wrong), the net gameplay effect of the change is that you can no longer raise the auction price of a plot of land way up, and then decide not to buy it, thus preventing other players from buying the land at a reasonable price.  So the question becomes, is this a desirable change to MULE?  I would argue that it is an improvement to the game.

I never enjoyed the possibility of the land auction spoiling gambit for two reasons:

1.  It wasted a lot of time.  Waiting for someone to march the price way up, only to end up NOT buying it, got old really quick.  It interrupted game flow, and made the game drag on longer, all so that NOTHING would occur during the auction.

2.  The players who could actually use this gambit to their advantage are the players with a lot of money.  And/or, they were the players who already owned so much land that they didn't really need to buy more, instead they were more interested in preventing other players from catching up to them in land ownership.  In both cases, the players using this gambit tended to be the ones winning the game.  (Players owning more money and/or land than their opponents are usually in the lead, or are in a great position to take the lead by turn 12).  Given that MULE is all about making things tough for the the leading players while giving benefits to the trailing players, leaving in a gambit that ONLY the leading players will use seems contrary to that core game philosophy.

Bravo Kipley! My thoughts exactly! Old auction system was a joke! Love the change.

I haven't played yet with the changes either.  But i applaud the change.  I agree with all of kipley's points but can also see one more useful thing that should help the skilled players also.  If we have lost the ability to run up auctions then once everyone has a lot of money we are all going to have to decide the true value of a plot of land and bid accordingly.

I have seen a lot of people running up land not because they are happy with the status quo, but because they don't know what a plot is worth and so they would rather have no one buy than have someone get a good deal or themselves a bad deal.

Also this could unlock a lost feature of the game which is the player selling their own land in the auctions.  Before when people finally got enough money to even consider selling your land they would just run it up and it would go unsold.  Now if almost every plot is going to get sold it may enhance gameplay, as well as save us a lot of time waiting for the run up auctions to run their course.

M.U.L.E. is amazing because after 25 years the game still holds up really well.  But it is not a perfect game.  The gaming industry has learned a lot through out the years.  I happily await further changes that enhance gameplay and encourages game balance with a good mix between luck and skill.

I think we should try it out for a while....seems like a good change, however, Rho's point is valid - once a plot goes unsold, auction should end.

Like all changes, some of us will like and support, and some of us will not.

I agree with Rhodan. The wise change would have been ending further land auctions if there was a no sale. The current change, of effectively removing backing out, overcompensates and tries to correct for non-existent problems.


Reading the other posts, I see two main complaints about the older land auction.

1. Time
MULE is a long game... It has always been so. If shortening the game is a goal, we should start with the many small pauses and speed-up productions. These simple changes wouldn't affect game mechanics.

2. Land/Money/Fairness/.../.../...
Land is gold. $2,000 for a plot of land is a good price. Anything less is cheap. $3,000 for a plot can make sense... and sometimes so could $4,000... When, I'm in a land auction I generally try to buy if I can; raise the price because it's too low (and I don't have enough to buy it); or try to push the price high enough so no one wants to buy it. However, the last option usually only happens when many have a lot of money. Taking away the last option makes land too cheap when most have lots of money towards the end of a game. Additionally, it will hurt those towards last place because the rich are buying up the property they would have been granted next turn.

ok, I have played a half a dozen games with the change and I still think it's a great change.

I understand Rhodan's point and stopping auctions when a plot goes unsold was a possible solution.  But does that mean you would also stop auctions earlier in the game when a plot goes unsold?  Lots of times people pay $60+ dollars so that next plot will go unsold.  Sometimes this works and sometimes it backfires when a 3rd plot comes up for auction.  Stopping auctions on every unsold plot erases that situation.  Which I don't think would be a positive change.

I haven't seen any unbalancing aspect of this change.  All it has done is added some thinking into what you should bid in the later auctions.   If you bid correctly on what the land is worth to you you will gain an advantage.  If you bid incorrectly on what land is worth to you you will be hurt.  Each plot has a different value to each player and it also varies depending on which round it is.  This adds a great new dimension to the game.

Just because a plot goes unsold doesnt mean there should be no further auctions that round! Dont agree. Players might pass on purchasing a plot because the plot for sale has no real value to them or is out of their area or who knows what? The next property might be of huge value with players willing to bid for it.

You moon-pies are loud but you've used an axe to fix a tooth ache, congratulations, I will be sticking with the c64s I guess.

And I was all excited about a server version to combat the cheating whore who had messed up the community for months now.

I'd rather play with myself, than even try it with changes like these going down.

WTF?!?

I have participated in many "new" land auctions now. I think the "fix" is worse than my previous post explains. So, the following is an addendum.

Graphical depiction is broken.
Auctions are about numbers. The space between top price and low price is a visual representation of those numbers. The new "fix" breaks this visual paradigm. Now, a blind gap exists for players to get lost in.

The widely suggested fix is to speed up the timer, slow down the players, and/or increase the number range between the top price and the low price. This fix would ensure the graphical depiction is meaningful.

Everybody quit complaining about every little thing and be happy that there is even a online Mule game to play! I remember back when people sat around a Pong game and had a blast with no complaints and now people complain about EVERY little imperfection on the planet. People have become greedy and spoiled!

What did u expect. Peeps what to play MULE. Not some version u like.

I guess as long as your getting what u want that makes it OK.

I think that ending the auctions if a land goes unsold can be a good idea. Mainly because it saves some time.

But I much prefer the way land auction works now compared to the previous way where you could block it by walking up high and then backing out.

However, if you have better solutions to suggest they are welcome.

In the original game you walk so slowly so you don't have time to back out. I'm not sure if the timer slows down either when you're walking like it does in Planet Mule? So that's one possible solution.

Peter
Planet Mule Team

The more I play, the more people are complaining about the timer... in general, it's become erratic -- way more than lag can account for.

In the original: Everyone moved much more slowly in auctions. Land auctions ended after a no sale. Land auctions could start in round one. The highest bidder blinks during the whole auction.

All of these, save the first, are a good idea. The first could be a good idea (I'm not sure.).

I have seen almost universal support for a way to make it hard to back out of an auction, but the current implementation is horrible. The elegant auction depiction has become mostly meaningless. The player not moving up and down in a consistent manner breaks the auction model that the rest of the auctions use (Plus, we can still out price goods and back out, which I still think is a great tool.). The "fix" has become counterintuitive, which makes the land auction much harder to understand especially for new players.

So again, speed up the timer, slow down the players, and/or increase the number range between the top price and the low price. These choices would ensure the graphical depiction is meaningful.

[Also, for auctions where no one has enough money to bid, skip them -- show something like "no money, no sale." This would be a logical way to save time.]

Out pricing goods and backing out has nothing to do with the same actions during auctions. You have a seller during energy/food auctions that always has the choice of moving down to sell or not. I love the new auction system for land and wish guys would just be happy with it. Sure it's not perfect but then again nothing in life is!

@Peter

Ok I guess I wasn't clear, make the game exactly as it was originally, allowing only for changes when absolutely required.

You guys just don't get it... in the original you could hike it and back out and we often did, why are you fixing what wasn't broken?  The difference is how hard it was to hike it and back out successfully.

Read around your own forums and you will find ample "suggestions" to make the game exactly as it was originally.

Maybe once you have done that you will actually understand the game well enough to make intelligent improvements... I mean are you trying to make a game that everyone who never wanted to play Mule will play?  Because if you succeed I can just about guarantee none of the original Mule fans will want to play it... f@@k it, why not put a flame thrower in so all those GTA players will come over too!?!

Honestly, the graphics improvements you've made were a complete waste of time since they are still about 2 decades behind the times ffs!  Just remake the original and change what NEEDS changing.  Then I will shut up and be happy despite the fact that you guys are floundering around for years trying in vain to beat the original.

Honestly, I put you guys in the same category as EA, I trust nothing you say and sincerely believe one of you is actually Uschin.  Why? Because your forum is littered with people asking for the original Mule and you just flat out ignore them except when it suites your purpose.

Case in point? We made a tonne of points on why Collusion shouldn't be in the game and what did you do? Well it was in the original... and so, according to a recent thread you have put it in!!!  And get this, you couldn't even take the tiny steps to make it an option as we all asked so nicely.  I know enough about programming to know it isn't hard to add a boolean check and allow a feature to be turned off.  You might as well of slapped me.

I haven't played in a while, don't know that I ever will, at the current rate I know the game will never be more than a pale shadow of the original.  So please forgive me if I have been misinformed about Collusion being back in the game.

But please do listen when we say remake the original, we mean that literally.

   
If you want the original go get a emulator and have a blast! I DONT want the original!  The original was flawed and far from perfect. Planetmule has taken the original and spruced up the grafics and gameplay to make it much better than the original in my humble opinion! I have the C64 and Atari versions of M.U.L.E.  and cant even go back and play them after playing on Planetmule! You should be happy that there is a MULE remake PERIOD!

Peter,
How can you be in favor of a change that destroys the concept of the original is beyond me.

 You have done a wonderful job recreating a great classic with the exact same game play and adding internet play. Something that no one else was able to do until you. And you have given it to us free of charge for which and I am eternally grateful. Please! Don't ruin it now! . Maybe your desire to create a new version with new game play options has overlap to this classic. I don't know. But I beg you to remove this change and lets make it like the original first and foremost.

Let the players who don't like the original land auction enjoy this change and other new features in your new version.

I have a question for the few who like this most recent change to the land auction.

Why is it okay to raise the price of food or energy up to a price no one can afford then back out but its not okay to do the same with land?

If you are going to change the land auction lets be consistent and change food, energy, ore and stite too.

With Smithore/Crystite/Food/Energy you have a player with product standing at the top of the mountain controlling the price! He can choose to sell or let the price go. No such person standing over the land auctions.

P.S. It's not a FEW that like the changes to the auction system! It's pretty much everybody but you! I couldnt stand the old system and would hate to ever see it again!

The original with Internet play is all I wanted.  I would gladly pay for it... monthly fees? abso-f@0king-lutely.

You guys are failing to see Rhodan's point or anyone elses.  But you have proved my point that you wouldn't play the original anymore anyway.

All the power to ya, I hope you always feel that way...

But I'm still stuck in a reality where I do want to play the original.... I just can't get 4 players together in the same building to play Mule more than once or twice a year.

I'll live with the shit music and graphics, the moronic "improvements" like crystite signs for example... by the way isn't having to use your memory one of those varied aspects of gameplay that the creator talked about being so important to appeal to different people???  How about the logic itself even: so my guy can plant a sign on any lot but no one else can read it?  Ok.  So maybe he has some device to do it then like an ipooh?  Oh but then why wouldn't he record all the plots instead of just the ones he assayed???  It can't be anything to do with ownership since long after someone else owns a plot my sign will still be there too.  WTF?!?

So in short, the original game mechanics are golden.  Quit turning the game play into shit, like another guy said call it "MtWampus" but don't call it Mule.  And, so long as I'm bothering, please quit saying that the goal is to make it as close to the original as possible because you are no where near it and not heading anywhere closer.  Don't act like politicians and say one thing and do another.  Ring any aggravation bells?

IMO its really disappointing to witness what you have done with a masterpiece so far.  I know at least 3 other players who feel the same but can't be bothered to try and tell ya, cause they know it won't make it any difference.

I care about Mule.  I can't just shut up and watch this crap.

Why are you struggling with finishing version 1 of a remake anyway?

Because you are trying to fix the game before you even understand it.  You could take 10 years to finish version 2, and no one would give a crap.  But you have a model of excellence here, all you need to do is emulate it, can you understand how frustrating it is to see you drop the ball on this?  Its like the simplest task in the world, all you really had to do is figure out Internet play and tack it onto an existing product.

MULE is evolving...seems to happen in life, happening in the internet, happening all over.

Emulators are available for those who REALLY, REALLY want the original, e-bay could probably net u an original system if you do not already have one.

Point is, let's enjoy what we have - let's watch and participate in the evolution of the game, let's not worry too much about being true to the classic -(see above).

Change will happen - some of us will see it is good...some bad (and vise/versa), if we want to play (and as I have stated many times - this is a Great way to pass an evening) we will have to play with the changes.

Good Luck All and HAVE FUN ;D

#1 Atari online Mule has major problems.  I have multiple c64s just to play this game, as do the 3 other guys I play with.  Our joystick supply is getting a little thin but we can probably go for another 20 years without a problem...

#2 Not all change is progress, and not all "evolution" is going to be successful...

#3 You can have a great game guaranteed, just remake the original Mule...

#4 You have the rest of eternity to "evolve" a better game, in fact it might take that long at your current rate, so why waste the time while we wait playing a pos?