Send donations to....?

[C64]

I know this is 100% free and you guys are incredibly awesome about that, but I'd like to send in money anyway to help with the costs of running/developing this.  Where do I send it to? 

And, can I get a W or lose a disconnect with my donation? :-)

[leahcim99]

SUCK UP...

[C64]

Eat it, #62!

[Blitzen]

Ah common they remade a game which 100s of programmers would of given their left nut to remake... and they screwed it up left and right...

First get it right and then I'll gladly pay a monthly membership fee to "reward my heroes"...

 

PS But if you insist, try buying a t-shirt, or the other motor bike game that they make commercially.

[C64]

You think they screwed it up left and right?  Lol.  Let me know when your version is finished.

[Blitzen]

Thanks but I know better than to let my shit skillz f@ck things up that I shouldn't be messing with to begin with... one day an open source project will totally own this version though, mark my words!

By the way does one need to be an artist to judge art? Or a model to know fashion?

I actually know a lil' programming but I have lived MULE, and what I know about programming just re-enforces my opinion: this game pales in comparison to its inspiration.

Byte me if ya can't handle the truth 

[dynadan]

Blitzen is a troll.  He has been spouting off a lot lately (almost all negative) extolling the virtues of the Original C64 version and criticizing this wonderful remake.  This remake is much better than the original and getting better all the time.  And just in case you programmers haven't noticed:

Blitzen has 29 total games
Has hosted 20 of them (indicative of someone who abuses hosting)
He has not played a single game since April.
He has been condemning the recent land auction changes while never having played it.

[Death_Mule17]

  Thats really weird, maybe hes using a "smurf" to see how the new land auction system works?

[Blitzen]

I wish I was a troll ya @$$-munch then I wouldn't give a crap if I made any sense at all.

No smurfing either bud, I just READ the forums and PLAY the game out in my head, you should try reading all my posts before we speak again... I been saying and reading this shit a while, I only just started getting loud about it.

As for the hosted 20 of 29 games, I was playing at a time when most people didn't know how to open ports to successfully host.  That includes my 3 long time co-players, with whom I played 5 or 6 games I think.

If you check my win/lose ratio I think you will find it isn't anything spectacular unlike your own which reeks of deliberate match fixing and out right pansy fight picking behaviour.

Honestly you sound like a griefer who is trying to protect his playground and its pretty sad... anyone else here aware of the debacle over at EA recently?

When there "top ten" ranked CnC players showed up for a tournament it turned out to be just 3 guys!  That means guys like you get about 2 seconds of consideration before I call you out for your shit... times up.

I have a Mule II suggestion, make dynadan and all the other bitter little pond scum pay to play please so we don't all have to sink to their level or quit.

I feel much better now thanks!

[data2008]

Please everyone keep it civilized 
We welcome every opinion, and Blitzen is really helpful in pointing things out. We actually know the game is not perfect due to some part related to the network effects and yes, some part due to not having matched everything from the original 100%. But does that make the game as a whole mcuh more inferior or just (to a minor degree if you consider gameplay) different?

[leahcim99]

The game has changed, just as I would hope that all of us have since we played the "original".

I mean if we are going to be 100% true to the original - fire up the old C64, call 3 friends over and go for it.

There are not enough of us original MULE players and we need new blood, that means subtle changes to the game to try and attract more players.

To decompile the original and re-complile for a server based version exactly as the original seems to be a step back.

Data2008, you're right....Planet Mule is different NOT inferior.

Blitzen (really like to play a game against you - outside of your head) you definately make a point - IF THE INTENTION of the developers was to re-create the original - they POOCHED IT....However, as I believe data2008 alluded to, the intention was to make something a little different and I am glad that they did.

Still need a few minor tweaks in the pricing / supply and demand issue, but keep up the good work

[dynadan]

Well said Leahcim99.

I wonder if there are a lot of play testers that do all their work in their head?  My intent on pointing out Blitzen's Troll heritage was not to pick a fight but merely to express that when it comes to what should be done to improve the game, the opinions of the people who loyally play this game on a daily bases should be more valued than someone who played 20 games total and has not played any of the changes you have made in the last 6 months.

I may have been incorrect alluding to possible hosting abuses.  But i know that most of the regulars will not even play with a host that only has that small amount of played games.  I know i didn't even try to host for my first 50 games.

Rhodan and I may not agree on a lot of issues regarding this game.  But we can at least have a civil discussion about our differing opinions.  I still stand by my opinion that the negative posts and name calling by Blitzen, who doesn't even play the game is most definately Troll type behavior.

[Blitzen]

I still play the original, I buy shit to keep the c64 running.  I keep a stack of disks, multiple drivers and keyboards , a box of joysticks.  I have changed but I do still play the same game.

I would play a remake online weekly, sometimes a lot more like a maniac.  My 29 games in this version were over the course of a couple months.

The auction dance problems are just another example of how this current system is still broken badly, there are other posts about it.  I have also witnessed it in the previous version.  Its a game killer.  Make ya feel like 1.5 hours just took a dump on your head.

Why is it impossible to develop a server/client where no player has an unfair advantage?  Why not make every player wait when one lags?  That way no one will flood anyone else as a method of exploiting the game mechanics?  I have played a lot of online games, unless there is a natural spike or someone is messing around the lag is usually not a problem... do we really need a Mule game that works with 4 people from all over the world -- flawlessly -- on the current Internet infrastructure??

I want to play with my 3 buddies right here in Ontario.  From Toronto to London we would ping about 50 - 60ms, within Toronto across the street would get 10 ms, from Toronto to Kirkland Lake we would ping about 250 ms.  And that KL connection is on a high speed line of site radio thingy.  Barring the odd spike those numbers were consistent.  Maybe you need to partner with a game server hosting company that has servers all over the world, that way you could let the game pick a server that is best for the players?  I think GameSpy does that kinda thing.

The guys in China/Russia/etc... are fun but I don't need Tournament perfection to play them for kicks sometimes, we can't even heckle one another properly after-all...

I do like a little flame with my game.  

PS dynadan you didn't try to host because you didn't have 3 buddies ready to play with you in one phone call.  And for the record it WOULD save a lot of money if people didn't hand play testers shit they didn't try in their head before creating... I won't be logging in to play until I see something worth the effort.  I played 29 games and that was far too much time wasted already given the state of the game.

[dynadan]

Thank you for composing an actual response Blitzen.

I think a lot of people are confusing Bandwidth with Latency.  You are correct that the internet infrastructure is improving all the time.  Unfortunately until someone invents quantum entanglement internet we are always going to have latency issues.  Latency is there because of the speed of light, and because of the slight ms delay of the various switches as the signal travels from point a to point b.  So no, these latency issues are not going to be solved no matter how fast you make the internet.  These latency issues exist with every game that is played over the internet.  In 1st person shooters you used to have to "lead" your shot to adjust for the latency.  Their fix was to move the latency onto the backend.  I.E. instead of trying to represent for everyone the same thing in real time, it let each machine assume it had the accurate info.  If you shot at someone and on your machine it should have hit them, then it would tell the other machine that it had been hit.  There would still be Latency....the player being hit would find out about it later than it had actually happened.  But it would effect game play less because the target had just got to have 250ms of extra life, instead of everyone having to predict where the target was going to be in 250ms.

Every system that uses the internet has to deal with these same issues.  From online gaming to stock trading.  In fact the way Planet Mule works is a lot more akin to Wall Street than it is to anything on the Nintendo DS.

So the latency issues that the developers are trying to make unintrusive to game play is a lot more complicated that you assume.  I think that they can find a way to fix the land selection phase (I will make a separate post in the next few days addressing this)  however, erasing the latency in the various auctions may very well be an impossible task to get rid of altogether.  This is not just an issue with having a player host the game.  Server based hosting will have the exact same problem.  In fact i see it making the current problems worse because if you are far away from the server you are ALWAYS going to be at a disadvantage to people closer.  So that's great if the servers are right down the street from you, but what if they are half way around the world? 

You suggested having servers based all around the world.  This is indeed how many commercial games try to solve some of their latency issues.  To do this however it requires having servers all around the world (expensive and time consuming)  It also requires a player base.  You don't seem to be worried about it because you seem to only play with your 3 buddies from down the street.  But planet mule really is on the verge of dieing.  For a game like this to succeed players have to log on and have a reasonable chance to get a game going in a short period of time.  For the last 3 months there are only 3 of us that keep the games running from 2200 EST to 1000 EST.  If Rodz, Deathmule, myself, and in the last month Doktor Buzzo stopped playing altogether there would be no more games.  The occasional players that log on and fill up our games would just log on sit there doing nothing for a couple hours and then leave.

Perhaps that is why the late night players try to cultivate the players that do play.  The hosts during late night don't use host advantages.  If there are 3 plots left number 1 doesn't press....regardless if he is host or not.  if there are 2 plots same goes for number 2.  Auction dancing is also frowned upon for the same reason.  The latenight players just don't do that to each other.  There are also ways to defend against it though, and we try to educate the noobs on it right away.  For instance, never sit on the bottom line in an auction.  Take the graphical lag into account and stay near top of screen to give yourself the 250ms extra reaction time you are going to need.

Anyway enough of this rambling.  If you have a way that you think can improve on the latency issues (i.e. the backend fix from 1st person shooters) please feel free to contribute your ideas to the discussion.  But just ranting about how the game is inferior and that the programmers should be able to do what people with millions haven't been able to do is not helpful.

[leahcim99]

Valid point dan - distance from server will create "lag" however, hopefully, players will be able to adjust, just as they would in first person shooters.
As the "lag" should be consistent, I think this will become a non-issue.

The idea of multiple servers....may be costly, however I for one have stated I am willing to help defray costs and I am sure that lots of us would.

Having played you 3 quite a bit (rodz LOTS), there is a different feeling to the "late nite" MULE and there is less of the dancing and u sometimes get "early evening".

Sorry, have to disagree on the plot thing as I will ALWAYS go for plot, played too many games where player did NOT hold button and missed plot and someone else get it next month - I know that the "lag" is an issue and I respect that as you guys are always playing each other, it would be normal to develop that respect...but this is MULE - we vets are mostly a good natured bunch of cut-throat pirates. .

I have played some combination of Brad, rodz, and Rhodan over 200 games....they are ALL STILL good natured cut throat pirates (cept rodz - he mostly a nice guy, but we work on him) when it comes to MULE.

You are right that we need to get new players (and as Blitzen alluded to - OLD Players) playing on a regular basis and generally most of us will play new players and even try to help them because, as we all know, game is better when all players have similar skill levels (cant count Brad - he TOO lucky).

Blitzen's last couple of posts surprised me too (I am from TO and that is where I used to play way back when).
He does help drive the discussions tho   

P.S get back to your game